Test Drove the New 2010 E-Class
08-05-09, 11:22 AM
#62
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No offense taken, of course 
My main point is really not about convenience or laziness, but about technology and features. I can get in my car and turn the key- wham- it's on. To press the start button you've got an extra step- the brake must be pressed before you press the button and start the car- so if we want to talk about who is lazy it must be those Germans who start their car in just one step, as opposed to everyone else who does it in two
In all honesty though, the start/stop button is nearly a class standard these days and it just seems downright odd that the E coupe doesn't offer it as standard (is it offered at all, or not?). This technology became all the rage about four years ago, so to think that Merc hasn't adopted it on their latest and greatest just seems a little...well...lazy
My main point is really not about convenience or laziness, but about technology and features. I can get in my car and turn the key- wham- it's on. To press the start button you've got an extra step- the brake must be pressed before you press the button and start the car- so if we want to talk about who is lazy it must be those Germans who start their car in just one step, as opposed to everyone else who does it in two
In all honesty though, the start/stop button is nearly a class standard these days and it just seems downright odd that the E coupe doesn't offer it as standard (is it offered at all, or not?). This technology became all the rage about four years ago, so to think that Merc hasn't adopted it on their latest and greatest just seems a little...well...lazy
If they customer feedback dictates the installation of an engine-start-button it will probably be added during the facelift. At the moment it doesn't seem to be an issue. It will be interesting to see how consumers will rate the new E class so I do look forward to reading those comments in the near future.
At the moment the new E class also offers very advanced technology, some of which is definitely not found in the Camry or perhaps Lexus products. We can turn the situation around and slam the Camry for not having an "AMG version" because the E class has one!
I'm kidding, of course.
08-05-09, 12:01 PM
#64
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If they customer feedback dictates the installation of an engine-start-button it will probably be added during the facelift. At the moment it doesn't seem to be an issue. It will be interesting to see how consumers will rate the new E class so I do look forward to reading those comments in the near future.
At the moment the new E class also offers very advanced technology, some of which is definitely not found in the Camry or perhaps Lexus products. We can turn the situation around and slam the Camry for not having an "AMG version" because the E class has one!
I'm kidding, of course.
At the moment the new E class also offers very advanced technology, some of which is definitely not found in the Camry or perhaps Lexus products. We can turn the situation around and slam the Camry for not having an "AMG version" because the E class has one!
I'm kidding, of course.
I continue to find it funny to see it justified b/c its a German car.
DustinV, 50-60% of Benz/BMW/Audis in Germany are sold to fleets FYI. Its odd to see American tastes bashed yet this is their most PROFITABLE market, like Lexus. America is AMG's biggest market.
The O.P wasn't impressed. He won't be the only one not going "cocoa for cocoa puffs" over the vehicle. A lot of other people will and the E-class will continue to sell in droves no matter if it wins all comparos or none.
08-05-09, 12:41 PM
#68
If they customer feedback dictates the installation of an engine-start-button it will probably be added during the facelift. At the moment it doesn't seem to be an issue. It will be interesting to see how consumers will rate the new E class so I do look forward to reading those comments in the near future.
.You seem to be of the view that luxury cars don't necessarily need "unnecessary features"- is that correct? If so, it seems to me that this is contradictory to the view that most in this country have towards luxury cars. I would venture to say that the majority of consumers, myself included, purchase luxury cars because of the excess and the "cutting edge" factor, otherwise there is really little reason to buy a GS or E over a Genesis or Avalon.
Even if E customers didn't flat out say that they wan't push button start, don't you think that most of them (Americans) will probably expect it when it's basically a class standard? This does seem to be the case when reading the OP's review.
There is a point where companies obviously make forecasts to predict what features and technologies people will want when a new car comes out. They probably don't think "Well, the car moves just fine with a 5AT, so why is there a need for a 6AT or 7AT, or even 8AT?" (unless you're Honda). Same logic goes for push botton start, HID headlights, nav systems, and if you really want to get down to it- leather, wood grain, CD players, etc.
Luxury cars should have all of the features you want, nevermind the ones you need. It's all about excess and after all, if a car doesn't have the cutting edge technology or features that you expect then...why pay the money for it over a mainstream product?
Does that make sense?
08-05-09, 01:12 PM
#69
Now with that being said, I think arguing that the E class doesnt come with a silly start button in base form, is just silly. It is very competitively priced, and it could be loaded to the point where no Lexus has gone before.
08-05-09, 02:08 PM
#70
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Well, I am not hung up on dead cow hides all over a car. I do prefer leather over cloth because it doesnt stain, doesnt discolor, doesnt absorb sweat and odor. And in all honesty I dont care whether the leather is real or fake, as long as its smooth and soft and so far I havent seen fake leather as smooth and soft as Lexus leather.
Now with that being said, I think arguing that the E class doesnt come with a silly start button in base form, is just silly. It is very competitively priced, and it could be loaded to the point where no Lexus has gone before.
Now with that being said, I think arguing that the E class doesnt come with a silly start button in base form, is just silly. It is very competitively priced, and it could be loaded to the point where no Lexus has gone before.
08-05-09, 02:19 PM
#71
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Hmmm, I think I need to defend myself here. I am not a "fanboy" nor am I defending the E class here because it is German.
I appreciate cars from all over the word (mostly) and have no real loyalty to Japanese, German, American, French, Korean etc. products. I would buy what best suits my needs and is appealing from a value perspective.
What you're missing is that these different trims enable customers to design their dream machine, basically. Someone can order a low-spec E350 with cloth seats while at the same time another person can order a high-spec E350 with leather, this and that etc. It's the way things work in Europe.
I just found the criticism of the lack of a start-engine-button a bit, well, silly. NO OFFENSE. I've become more European in a way.
08-05-09, 02:22 PM
#72
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DustinV, you know I was also a big "who cares" about start buttons until I got a car with one. Now I can't see going back. Its weird going in another car without it and I keep the keys in the pocket and I'm pressing a non existent button
Even my G/F's 07 Altima has it and she used to comment how she had it and I didn't with my 430.
Even my G/F's 07 Altima has it and she used to comment how she had it and I didn't with my 430.
08-05-09, 02:44 PM
#73
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I still don't know if we are seeing eye-to-eye on this issue, and we may not which is fine .
You seem to be of the view that luxury cars don't necessarily need "unnecessary features"- is that correct? If so, it seems to me that this is contradictory to the view that most in this country have towards luxury cars. I would venture to say that the majority of consumers, myself included, purchase luxury cars because of the excess and the "cutting edge" factor, otherwise there is really little reason to buy a GS or E over a Genesis or Avalon.
Even if E customers didn't flat out say that they wan't push button start, don't you think that most of them (Americans) will probably expect it when it's basically a class standard? This does seem to be the case when reading the OP's review.
There is a point where companies obviously make forecasts to predict what features and technologies people will want when a new car comes out. They probably don't think "Well, the car moves just fine with a 5AT, so why is there a need for a 6AT or 7AT, or even 8AT?" (unless you're Honda). Same logic goes for push botton start, HID headlights, nav systems, and if you really want to get down to it- leather, wood grain, CD players, etc.
Luxury cars should have all of the features you want, nevermind the ones you need. It's all about excess and after all, if a car doesn't have the cutting edge technology or features that you expect then...why pay the money for it over a mainstream product?
Does that make sense?
.You seem to be of the view that luxury cars don't necessarily need "unnecessary features"- is that correct? If so, it seems to me that this is contradictory to the view that most in this country have towards luxury cars. I would venture to say that the majority of consumers, myself included, purchase luxury cars because of the excess and the "cutting edge" factor, otherwise there is really little reason to buy a GS or E over a Genesis or Avalon.
Even if E customers didn't flat out say that they wan't push button start, don't you think that most of them (Americans) will probably expect it when it's basically a class standard? This does seem to be the case when reading the OP's review.
There is a point where companies obviously make forecasts to predict what features and technologies people will want when a new car comes out. They probably don't think "Well, the car moves just fine with a 5AT, so why is there a need for a 6AT or 7AT, or even 8AT?" (unless you're Honda). Same logic goes for push botton start, HID headlights, nav systems, and if you really want to get down to it- leather, wood grain, CD players, etc.
Luxury cars should have all of the features you want, nevermind the ones you need. It's all about excess and after all, if a car doesn't have the cutting edge technology or features that you expect then...why pay the money for it over a mainstream product?
Does that make sense?
Your post makes sense and I do understand you.
But think about this for a moment, I am sure you will agree with this.
Mainstream cars have probably made the most advances in recent years when it comes to features and performance. Remember the days when a mainstream car was a simple vehicle that was basically optimized for value and family-friendliness and nothing more. You had everything you needed in these cars. Perhaps there were a few performance options and you had the choice whether or not you wanted an automatic transmission or air-conditioning but for the most part a mainstream car was what it was: a car for the lower to middle classes. In those days a luxury car defined what was trendy and high tech and what would eventually trickle down into the mainstream segment.
Not anymore.
Today, a mainstream car like the Accord, Camry or the Avalon/Genesis is already a bordering on (or has already crossed the border into) the premium segment. Manufacturers of mainstream vehicles have literally began rivaling luxury brands in features and technology but for a cheaper price.
Because of this it has become difficult for luxury brands to differentiate themselves because they're essentially being rivaled by mainstream products from a totally different consumer market. It's the same in Europe to some extent.
What really sets a luxury and a mainstream brand apart these days is first of all the price (and target market) and perhaps the brand itself (prestige, history, heritage, traditions etc.). For our purpose we'll use the Camry and the E class. Essentially we have two cars which are laden with advanced technology yet are aimed at two completely different types of buyers and sold under two different brands with two different characteristics. Buyer expectations are different, completely different. Naturally a Camry shopper cares about the value aspect but he's getting more for his money too. The Mercedes E class shopper is probably interested in features, too, but the brand has a lot of cache, too. The word "Mercedes-Benz" meant a lot in the US when I left. I assume it still does.
Also, that brand name is enough to satisfy most prospective MB buyers. I found this while searching the Internet on appeal studies. Here's a recent study from JD Powers. I suppose
J. D. Power APEAL study 2009: The Mercedes-Benz S-Class is the best car in the USA
Stuttgart, Germany, Jul 22, 2009 – Mercedes-Benz and smart drivers are particularly satisfied, according to the latest J. D. Power APEAL survey about the best vehicle concept. In this exhaustive customer survey the Mercedes-Benz S-Class was awarded the highest number of overall points for the third time running, and is therefore not only the best car in its segment, but at the same time also in the entire US market. Other winners in their segment were the SLK and, for the first time, the smart, which its buyers appreciate as the best car in the Sub-Compact Cars segment. This result by the internationally renowned market research institute underlines the high level of Mercedes customers' satisfaction with the quality and design of their new cars.
The 2009 APEAL study ("Automotive Performance, Execution and Layout Study") by the market research institute J. D. Power reflects how satisfied car buyers were with their new cars after driving them for three months between December 2008 and February 2009. Around 81,000 new car buyers delivered their verdict on a large number of aspects in a detailed questionnaire. These included driving characteristics, exterior and interior design, operating functionality, stowage space, but also e.g. also the noise made when closing the doors.
A maximum of 1000 points was achievable. The Mercedes-Benz S-Class scored 887 points – the highest number in any of the categories. This makes the luxury saloon the best car in the USmarket, as well as the measure of all things in the large premium car segment. The S-Class therefore easily defended the first place it had already achieved in 2007 and 2008.
The Mercedes-Benz SLK was also the winner in its class, gaining 28 points after the last model facelift. Other improvements were achieved by the M-Class (plus 10 points), the R-Class (plus 7 points) and the C-Class (plus 6 points). The overall average achieved by the Mercedes models was 841 points – an outstanding result. In this study, car buyers made very positive mention of the fact that in their view, Mercedes-Benz has made very substantial progress in reducing fuel consumption and therefore carbon dioxide emissions.
The smart was represented in the APEAL study for the first time, and the two-seater immediately took first place in the Sub-Compact Car segment.
This outstanding result in the APEAL study means that within just a few weeks, and for the second time this year, Mercedes-Benz has emerged a winner in a customer survey conducted by the well-known USmarket research institute J. D. Power and Associates. Only recently, top marks for highest product quality were achieved in Germanyfor the Customer Satisfaction Index (CSI) survey, which is regarded as the perfect buyers@ guide. First place overall across all categories was won by the Mercedes-Benz CLK, which also took first place in the sports car rating. The Mercedes-Benz E-Class was able to prevail in the luxury segment, taking first place in this significant ranking.
The J. D. Power studies of this year therefore confirm the outstanding status enjoyed among demanding car buyers by the vehicles made by the world's oldest automobile manufacturer.
Source: http://mercedes-benz-blog.blogspot.c...-mercedes.html
I would assume that your typical American E class customers are also satisfied with their purchases regardless if it has a certain feature or not. And with the new E class getting great reviews everywhere, I doubt someone would really care if the car has an engine-start-button or not. If Mercedes offers this feature we're arguing about after the facelift, well, then it should be a big plus, right?
My E230 for example has everything I need. A/C, A/T, a navigation system, heated seats, cruise control and a sunroof. I know this sounds "poorly equipped" by American standards but it's all I personally require and I am happy with it. A few years ago I might have scoffed at this but it dawned on me that these features that the car has are what I use on a daily basis. I listen to local radio stations or play my own CD's which means I don't need satellite radio or Bluetooth or internet. I'm happy with my "stripper" E class.
08-05-09, 02:49 PM
#74
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DustinV, you know I was also a big "who cares" about start buttons until I got a car with one. Now I can't see going back. Its weird going in another car without it and I keep the keys in the pocket and I'm pressing a non existent button
Even my G/F's 07 Altima has it and she used to comment how she had it and I didn't with my 430.
Even my G/F's 07 Altima has it and she used to comment how she had it and I didn't with my 430.
Please, call me Dustin.
I understand where you are coming from and how luxury cars need to have it but I also think it isn't that big of an issue. I tested a BMW 118d hatch a few weeks ago and it had an engine-start-button. It took me a few seconds to figure out how it works by the way. The BMW version works by inserting the key FOB into its slot, putting your foot on the brake and then pressing the button while your foot is still on the brake.
After the drive, I had no problems getting into my E230 and starting it the old-fashioned-way. It's not an issue - to me at least.
The BMW 1 series by the way, wow, great car. I think those folks here who are slamming it need to drive it first, then comment.
08-05-09, 03:08 PM
#75
Its easy to get spoiled by features, and quite frankly MB does a much better job of offering choice to consumers than Lexus. They let you pick more individual features rather than packages. If I was buying one, I'd chose heated and cooled seats, but skip on the start button and nav.