IS-SV

In reality it's closer to $1000 (I consider anything under a grand rounding error) for the IS350 which is chump change to me for a $40K plus car. The only major service in the warranty period is the $500 service at 30K miles, the rest are $59 oil changes at intervals of 7K miles.

IS-SV

Yes, I agree 100% and that's how I deal with and advise others too. As you pointed out depreciation is critical to consider and many people fail to factor that in, it's huge bucks (not chump change).

Threxx

59 bucks with tire rotation and loaner w/ synthetic or semi synthetic oil??

My dealer charges $110 every 5k miles for oil and tire rotation including loaner car and that's not even synthetic oil. I thought 5k miles was what Lexus recommends for oil change intervals, which is what I based my calculation on - at least I think it was for my GS400.

Also 15k miles was more than just an oil change, as was 45k miles.

30k I remember being more like $650-750 but for my figure above I took your $500 estimate since I have no idea for the IS350.

Yeah 1 grand is small compared to 40 grand, but if somebody handed you a stack of 10 crisp 100 dollar bills I bet you might be pretty excited. Thus, it's not chump change, even if it is a small amount relative to the entire purchase price of the car. If I'm considering everything down to a 20 dollar/month difference in insurance premiums when I shop for cars, I'll definitely consider a $1600 (or $1000) difference in maintenance costs.

Faymester

Hands down, unless your friend really likes driving, he should get the the IS.

The only (and I definitely mean only) reason I'm moving to BMW is for the driving 'experience'. I'm convinced Lexus makes a better car, a nicer are, and a much lower headache car.

edit: when I'm talking about buying a car I do not factor in depreciation because I'm not thinking about when I'm going to sell it. I know I'll sell it eventually but since there's no expiry date on my ownership of said car, trying to figure out what it's worth when I want to get rid of it is about as accurate as the side of a barn.

mmarshall

You're right that depreciation is a major factor in owner expense, but, however, it can't always be figured (or guessed) in advance. BMW and Nissan both lost a lot of money on leases because the residual values, at the ends of the leases, ended up being less, and the depreciation more, than what the leasing contracts had figured on. Likewise, Hyundai and Kia products, SHOULD, by all signs, be enjoying less depreciation now, due to their improving reputation and popularity as both new and used cars, but that is not the case either......both are depreciating more than they deserve. Hondas, traditionally, have had very low depreciation, and that has hung on, even though some of their newer designs are less attractive than before....that could be a sign of an increasing preference of the public for used Hondas, rather than new ones.

IS-SV

Yes, we all have different threshholds for excitement about money so I won't go into that, I do respect difference of opinion even if I can't get excited over a grand. But I fully expect discounts on both cars to run in the thousands, not chump change.

Yes, I'm talking dino oil, not synth, no tire rotation on staggered wheels. Dealers are ok with oil change intervals of 5000 - 7500 miles here, and so am I based on knowledge about oil change intervals and oil life. $59 to $69 depending on which one of two dealers I use, no loaner I sit there and wait 1 hour or they will come in mobile van a do change at my office. I skip the extra service at 15K miles (which is "clean AC filter"), plus whatever stuff they make up not in service manual.

I'm like you, I manage carefully insurance premiums too, since I usually have 3 to 4 cars in my fleet at the same time.

amdave

Over 50% of BMWs are leased. This to me is an issue. It basically means the car is not expected to have excellent reliability or be owned for a long time.

Frankly, leasing is designed to put people into cars they can't really afford. When a car maker actively caters to that, they have very little incentive to make cars of high quality and reliability which will last a long time.

People who are financially savvy, no matter how rich, will not lease. They will buy a high quality car which will last 10 yrs+ with little headache or need for expensive repairs.

This is why I own a 2009 LS 460 and not a 7 series or S class.

Lets see what Benz can do in the future - if they can get back to the quality of build they had in the past, I may buy another one in the future. Currently, however, Lexus has the best quality cars out there.

mmarshall

Yes, Lexus is probably the most reliable brand, overall, in the upmarket/luxury class, but the Infiniti G and M series (as well as some less-exensive cars) are also up there, and I have seen a lot of people (including myself) have excellent luck with Subarus, Toyotas, and Hondas. Newer Hyundais are also now bordering on excellent.

amdave

I have a 1998 Camry with 200k miles on it sitting next to the Lexus in the garage, so I definitely agree.

LexFather

http://images.businessweek.com/ss/08...cars/index.htm


Audi A4 68%
Audi A6 74.1%
BMW 7 series 85.3%
BMW X3 67.3%
BMW 6 series 68.6%
Saab 97x 82.2%
BMW Z4 70.7%
Mercedes Benz E class 70%
LandRover Range Rover 69.6%
Jaguar XJ 65.8%

Phiber

That is true but the 328i is actually surprisingly very reliable considering it is a BMW. While the 335i is a whole different story.

I have a 3 series and a IS so I have experiences with both cars. A 328i vs a IS350 is a no brainer. IS350 hands down..

LexFather

syzygy

You and my father think exactly alike. My dad also never leases, he only buys outright and keeps his car for 10+ years. He had an S500 before and it caused him nothing but trouble, so he switched over to the LS brand. Owned 2 years now, not a single issue (except some wind noise) but he doesn't mind the noise.

I think people who came from the ultra quiet LS 430 are more vulnerable to being annoyed by the wind noise.

Even with the wind noise the new LS is still a LOT quieter than his old S class.

I8ABMR

I think its the fact that the cars are really like sensory deprivation vehicles that are outerspace silent are more proned to drivers hearing slight wind noise because there is nothing to drown the trace amunt of wind noise out like tires, exhaust, or even cars in the lane next to you

rominl

iTrader: (4)

that's so untrue.

while lease does make it possible for some people to get cars they can't afford, but a lot of people (rich people i'd add) lease cars because they like to get new cars every few years and they don't like to deal with selling cars, so leasing is perfect for them. they lease, 3 yrs later, give back and lease another one