Review: 2010 Subaru Legacy GT
#31
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
You may not have met us face-to-face, or spoken with us on the phone, but there are plenty of Subaru owners here on CL, and most of us are pretty happy. I am admittedly objective in my reviews, but, nevertheless, I still think that, for the money, Subie does some of the best daily-drivers on the market, particularly for bad-weather driving.
#32
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Posts: n/a
Good review, I really have gotten to love a CVT tranny. Sadly its another vehicle that I much preferred the previous model inside and out.
Amazingly Subie sales are doing better than EVER which is incredible in this slow market.
Amazingly Subie sales are doing better than EVER which is incredible in this slow market.
Last edited by LexFather; 08-16-09 at 12:42 PM.
#33
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Thanks.
In my experience so far, Nissan and Subaru clearly do the CVT better then anyone else. Perhaps that is no surprise..........rumor has it that both companies use a CVT developed by the same contractor.
There are some irritations on the new ones, yes, but also some notable improvements. I mentioned many of them, but one thing on the new Outback that I did not mention (because it is a Legacy review) are the folding roof cross-bars that swivel and lock in place over their front/rear supports, to get them out the way when you are trying to wash and dry the roof. That also (possibly) helps with wind noise.
I really have gotten to love a CVT tranny.
In my experience so far, Nissan and Subaru clearly do the CVT better then anyone else. Perhaps that is no surprise..........rumor has it that both companies use a CVT developed by the same contractor.
Sadly its another vehicle that I much preferred the previous model inside and out.
Last edited by mmarshall; 08-16-09 at 12:52 PM.
#34
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
2010 Legacy/Outback CVT Review Update
A number of you have asked about the new CVT. I'm going to update this review a little, because I had my own Outback in the Subaru shop for routine service today, and, while I was waiting, I had a chance to test-drive both a new 2010 2.5 Outback and Legacy 2.5.....both non-turbo, and both with the CVT. The CVT is only offered on the N/A 2.5, not the 2.5 Turbo (which is manual-transmission-only), or the 3.6 H6, which gets only the conventional 5-speed automatic.
The CVT is a real gem; every bit as nice as the highly-regarded Nissan units (rumor is that they were both developed and engineered by the same contractor), though it seemed to make the 2.5 run a little stronger in the Legacy than in the Outback. Like the Nissan units, it has 6 programmed gear "ranges", which, in effect, lock the drive belt/chain to different grooves in the pulleys. In the Legacy, it essentially made the N/A 2.5 perform like the old N/A 3.0 H6 from last year. The Outback, with the same drivetrain, didn't feel quite as strong as the Legacy, but definitely stronger than the same engine last year with the old 4-speed automatic. EPA gas mileage also seems to be up a couple of MPG as well, due to the CVT's efficiency....though, of course, AWD vehicles, because of the weight and drag, are not the best ones to start with if you are looking for high mileage. It is smooth, quiet, and has positive-feeling, nicely-finished silver paddle shifters for the CVT ranges (there are six of them). Both cars showed little of the annoying motorboating/rubber-banding characteristics found on some CVTs, though the Outback's unit felt, under medium-to-strong acceleration, slightly more conventional-like in delivering built-in, simulated automatic "shifts" in full-auto mode, without the paddles. The Legacy's unit felt a little more CVT-like in keeping the engine closer to the peak power-band than the Outback's (both engines, of course, were brand-new and un-broken-in, so I didn't push either one too far or redline them). Both CVT's used a nice, fore/aft shifter, with a separate manual gate for the paddles....none of that annoying zig-zag shifter crap that the last-generation automatics had. My only real concern with this new transmission is its potential long-term durability......Subaru's 5/60 drivetrain warranty, of course, covers it for the first 5 years (which is about the time I usually get a new car, anyway...every 5 years or so).
Aside from their drivetrains, both cars were generally pleasant to drive. The Legacy's handling/steering response was noticeably better than the Outback's, which had marked body roll and a slow response. It should be noted, however, that the Outback was the base 2.5 model with tall, 70-series all-season tires and a softer suspension that emphasized ride comfort over handling....the Legacy, as with upmarket Outbacks, had a slightly firmer suspension, lower-profile 60-series rubber, and, of course, a lower center of gravity. Both cars were quiet, with good sound insulation.....the Outback, at lower speeds, was about as quiet as a Lexus ES350 (though not as tomb-quiet as an LS460, of course). Brakes on both cars were smooth, firm, lacked sponginess, and had fairly well-placed pedals for large feet, though you could tell you weren't in a Porsche when it came to actual stopping power.
The CVT is a real gem; every bit as nice as the highly-regarded Nissan units (rumor is that they were both developed and engineered by the same contractor), though it seemed to make the 2.5 run a little stronger in the Legacy than in the Outback. Like the Nissan units, it has 6 programmed gear "ranges", which, in effect, lock the drive belt/chain to different grooves in the pulleys. In the Legacy, it essentially made the N/A 2.5 perform like the old N/A 3.0 H6 from last year. The Outback, with the same drivetrain, didn't feel quite as strong as the Legacy, but definitely stronger than the same engine last year with the old 4-speed automatic. EPA gas mileage also seems to be up a couple of MPG as well, due to the CVT's efficiency....though, of course, AWD vehicles, because of the weight and drag, are not the best ones to start with if you are looking for high mileage. It is smooth, quiet, and has positive-feeling, nicely-finished silver paddle shifters for the CVT ranges (there are six of them). Both cars showed little of the annoying motorboating/rubber-banding characteristics found on some CVTs, though the Outback's unit felt, under medium-to-strong acceleration, slightly more conventional-like in delivering built-in, simulated automatic "shifts" in full-auto mode, without the paddles. The Legacy's unit felt a little more CVT-like in keeping the engine closer to the peak power-band than the Outback's (both engines, of course, were brand-new and un-broken-in, so I didn't push either one too far or redline them). Both CVT's used a nice, fore/aft shifter, with a separate manual gate for the paddles....none of that annoying zig-zag shifter crap that the last-generation automatics had. My only real concern with this new transmission is its potential long-term durability......Subaru's 5/60 drivetrain warranty, of course, covers it for the first 5 years (which is about the time I usually get a new car, anyway...every 5 years or so).
Aside from their drivetrains, both cars were generally pleasant to drive. The Legacy's handling/steering response was noticeably better than the Outback's, which had marked body roll and a slow response. It should be noted, however, that the Outback was the base 2.5 model with tall, 70-series all-season tires and a softer suspension that emphasized ride comfort over handling....the Legacy, as with upmarket Outbacks, had a slightly firmer suspension, lower-profile 60-series rubber, and, of course, a lower center of gravity. Both cars were quiet, with good sound insulation.....the Outback, at lower speeds, was about as quiet as a Lexus ES350 (though not as tomb-quiet as an LS460, of course). Brakes on both cars were smooth, firm, lacked sponginess, and had fairly well-placed pedals for large feet, though you could tell you weren't in a Porsche when it came to actual stopping power.
Last edited by mmarshall; 08-25-09 at 12:58 PM.
#36
i dont know but maybe its just me but when i first saw a new legacy commercial on tv i thought it was the new 4GS....because it looked just like a lexus "but thats just me" anyways i like subarus good cars but i wanted to stick with the no questions asked reliablity of toyota
#38
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Except for some prior head gasket and rear-wheel-bearing issues, yes, Subaru reliability IS up there with Hondas and Toyotas....though the Subie boxer engines don't usually last quite as long. But the new CVT in the N/A 2.5 Legacy/Outback is new, unproven, and a possible cause for concern. I normally don't recommend extended waranties for Subaru products because of their good reliability, but for a new 2010 CVT that you plan to keep past the 5/60 factory warranty, it might not be a bad idea (I normally get a new car every 5 years or so; so with me it is a non-issue).
#39
Except for some prior head gasket and rear-wheel-bearing issues, yes, Subaru reliability IS up there with Hondas and Toyotas....though the Subie boxer engines don't usually last quite as long. But the new CVT in the N/A 2.5 Legacy/Outback is new, unproven, and a possible cause for concern. I normally don't recommend extended waranties for Subaru products because of their good reliability, but for a new 2010 CVT that you plan to keep past the 5/60 factory warranty, it might not be a bad idea (I normally get a new car every 5 years or so; so with me it is a non-issue).
#41
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Thanks.
The original review request, of course was for the Turbo Legacy GT, but I also received questions and comments about the new CVT (which is not available with the turbo 2.5 or 3.6), so I thought I'd do an update. I may (?) also be in the market for one of these cars myself next spring.
The original review request, of course was for the Turbo Legacy GT, but I also received questions and comments about the new CVT (which is not available with the turbo 2.5 or 3.6), so I thought I'd do an update. I may (?) also be in the market for one of these cars myself next spring.
#42
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Yes, but consider the fact that Subaru will only offer the CVT with their lowest-torque American-market engine (the N/A 2.5).......that tells you something. If it were as durable as you suggest, it would be offered with engines that have more spunk. The fact that it's not suggests to me that its capacity to handle torque, like some other CVT's, may be limited. Nissan, of course, offers their CVTs with some pretty good-sized V6s, but the durability record of their CVTs has been mixed.
#43
Yes, but consider the fact that Subaru will only offer the CVT with their lowest-torque American-market engine (the N/A 2.5).......that tells you something. If it were as durable as you suggest, it would be offered with engines that have more spunk. The fact that it's not suggests to me that its capacity to handle torque, like some other CVT's, may be limited. Nissan, of course, offers their CVTs with some pretty good-sized V6s, but the durability record of their CVTs has been mixed.
#44
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Just because they don't offer it now, doesn't meet that they won't. They've talked about pairing it with their diesel. The fact is that Subaru is a relatively small company, they don't have the engineering force to do it all in one MY. Case and point, when the EJ25 was released it was only available with an automatic for the first MY.
#45
Yes, I think Subaru has a market for diesels and hybrids. I think a Forester hybrid would sell well. I think a Legacy diesel would be a nice alternative too and its quite efficient, which is nice to see. I know there are alot of Legacy GT owners who said that they would buy a Legacy diesel. However, I think few of the would give up their quick sports cars for an eco diesel, especially since right now its only 6MT.