PAULGS430

They should totally redesign it to look like a real competitor. Only problem is that will cost VW an arm & leg. Sell it first in European & world markets to how it is received then sell here in US. AWW just forget it & work on Audi brand. lol

pagemaster

Valid point...but there are people who will pay $70k for a TOYOTA product that I am very fond of.

Its all about how you market the product.

LexFather

Pierch continues to be off his rocker trying to compete VW with luxury marques. Sadly as fantastic as the A8 is, it doesn't sell here either. Did they really think an equally as expensive VW would? Hyundai acknowledges this problem with their Equus and don't intend to sell many here.


Check again, the evidence shows people buy Lexus for a multitude of factors.
-Features
-Value
-Luxury
-Quality
-Looks/Style
-MPG/economy
-interior
-ease of use/driver accommodations
-Technology
-Performance
-Image/Panache
-Dealer Service
-etc etc etc

To say its just "value and reliablity" is not painting an accurate picture.

mmarshall

I respect your opinion, but I think you fail to see the point. With the Phaeton, even at 80-90K, you're NOT paying a premium, when you look at what comparable BMWs and Mercedes cost with big V8s and V12's. THAT's what the American public simply failed to understand when the Phaeton was here last time. Sure, 90K is a lot of money, but it sure beats the 120-150K that BMW and Mercedes V12 models cost.....and more than that, for top-end AMG's.

And WHY did the public fail to understand it? Yes.........that old bugaboo, image. Image blinds a lot of car shoppers....it has for many years. That is why Korean cars continue to depreciate faster than Japanese cars, even though their quality is now comparable (or, in some cases, better). But the public, as a whole, is still hamstrung by 15 and 20-year-old images of Korean cars being junk.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

and i didn't say anyone will say it's a poor car.

i said people overlooked it plus it was poorly marketed and people just immediately say VW shouldn't bother trying, which i think is wrong.

just like some people are slamming hyundai for bringing out more luxurious vehicles, but what i really think is they don't like competition from some 'uppity' brand.

times change, brands improve, other brands falter. vw is an engineering and marketing powerhouse and MAJOR global player that isn't about to give up on the u.s. market. i don't know where a lot of their cars are made, but i suspect their biggest pricing problem is making a lot of cars in germany where labor costs and taxes are off the charts. i know they've made some vehicles in mexico, but don't know what if any of their current line is made outside germany.

when you say 'these things' i thought the resale on the diesel ones was pretty decent but could be wrong... anyway, again, things can change.

life is, or should be, about more than just money. if a vw, or whatever brand, will bring some enjoyment to a buyer, moreso than another 'more fiscally responsible' purchase, then maybe it's worth it to them.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

post of the day.

IS-SV

Agreed, the final choice is with the buyer and he needs to be happy.

But fiscal responsibility is one reason the rich keep getting richer and the poor keep getting poorer.

LexFather

Damn multi Quote bit take a minute to see prices on Autotrader, you may buy one

I don't see VWs image changing. If anything they are going to change for the American market, as they are building a new plant in TN to make cars tuned to our tastes. IMO no matter how well marketed I don't see people buying it over a LS/7/S class, even in these economic times. Maybe it would be smart to have low sales goals.

The other problem was not every dealer could fix it! They had to fly special techs in as most places were not equipped to handle the VW. WIth a 7/LS/S this is not an issue, you simply take your car in for service and get it back.

Wow 52 for sale, the low price is 18 grand!!! The high price is 38 grand!!

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/search..._type=priceASC

IS-SV

Nice listing of some of the main reasons why I purchased a Lexus recently.

RX_330

I could pick up a used S600 with less than 30k miles for $70-80k. Although I do realize not everybody is comfortable with buying pre-owned and would rather buy brand new, in which case you do have a very valid point.

I guess the Phaeton just doesn't excite me as much when I could have something different like an S600 or a 7-Series, although I'd have to buy used, which I'm perfectly comfortable with.

For me, it's a matter of personal preference and opinion. I do respect your opinions and you are right for the most part. Actually, if I was in the market for a large, luxury sedan right now I would consider a Phaeton considering the resale values make it an extremely attractive used buy, but there are never any around here and frankly I'm too lazy to go anywhere far to buy one.

TRDFantasy

Let me clarify a bit more: people in North America are NOT willing to pay a premium for a mass-market brand. I assume you are referring to the Land Cruiser, and that sells VERY poorly in North America. Canada no longer even offers the vehicle. The Lexus LX however, a close cousin to the Land Cruiser, sells quite well even thought it costs more than a Land Cruiser.

Overseas, the LC achieves amazing sales because in certain overseas markets people ARE willing to pay a premium for a mass-market brand vehicle.

I *DO* see the point of the Phaeton, however people in North America DO NOT.

You are correct and you prove my point. People in North America are so concerned about *image*, and THAT is why they will NOT pay a premium for a mass-market vehicle, where as in Europe people will.

North Americans have no problem paying huge amounts for a luxury vehicle, because it "makes sense" to them image-wise.

mmarshall

You still don't see my point. It's not a question of whether Americans will pay a "premium" for a Phaeton or not. 90K for a Phaeton, though a lot of money, is simply NOT a premium, period. It is many thousands of $$$$$ less than what comparable BMW and Mercedes vehicles cost. Financially, that is actually a big discount.

That's why more of them should be reading CAR CHAT.

TRDFantasy

To further clarify, it is a premium price for the VW brand not for the Phaeton itself. Yes, for what you get the Phaeton is actually a good value. In the eyes of North American consumers, they are NOT willing to pay a premium (high price) for a mass market brand vehicle, no matter HOW good the vehicle is.

mmarshall

OK. I at least partially see where you are coming from. I think we're just looking at the same deal here from two different angles.

Another test for the American public, though, along those lines, will be when the 55-60K Hyundai Equus goes on sale here. We'll see if the public will spring that kind of money for a Hyundai-badged vehicle. Hyundai, though, despite its bad start here, now has a reputation for better quality than VW.

So far, though, they seem to be buying up the 40K Genesis sedan.

LexFather

While I can appreciate the Phaeton I am not going to lie and say it being a VW doesn't sway me. VW to me means Beetle, even with nicer products. My experience with VW dealerships has been dismal. I don't see the VW as BETTER than the S/7/LS/ or its brother the A8. I see it as equal/worse so any "value" is lost to me.

I mean people don't buy expensive Lincolns, A8s, XJs, Acuras, Infiniti's, Saabs, Volvos, what makes VW think they will be successful? It goes against all logic.