Sad day for car tuners :(
08-20-09, 08:58 PM
#16
Honestly I don't blame car companies. If you're a consumer and want to mess with the stock performance of the car and expect warranty work to be done you're gambling. It's not exactly fair for someone to pay for your own misfortunes/mistakes. You take the risk when you change something that the car makers aren't intending to warranty.
08-20-09, 10:28 PM
#17
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Tuners will get around and make more money on it. I remember when Mercedes said that no one but the dealer will be able to get ahold of theyre star program, now instead of paying 15k for it you can get one for 3k, then again a new star came out and with out the update you are no longer in the network and no more updates for the new models.
08-21-09, 12:05 AM
#18
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Here's a piece of news - it's a Federal requirement for the ECM to be able to be reflashed. However, nothing says the entire engine code needs to be reflashed, only the tuning parameters. Add to this PERMANENT OBDII DTC recording (also on Lexus for 2010) and you've got reflashable with full recording of what you've done.
Also, Toyota is building its own operating system and hardware architecture, due for production in 2015. If you don't think that will keep Scion/Toyota/Lexus from being cracked, you're really confused.
Why have all the Euro cars been hacked? Because European programmers can be bought, and the aftermarket will pay to get the crypto keys. Why has Toyota never been cracked? Because the Japanese programmers can't be bought. How do I know? Friends in the industry.
Also, Toyota is building its own operating system and hardware architecture, due for production in 2015. If you don't think that will keep Scion/Toyota/Lexus from being cracked, you're really confused.
Why have all the Euro cars been hacked? Because European programmers can be bought, and the aftermarket will pay to get the crypto keys. Why has Toyota never been cracked? Because the Japanese programmers can't be bought. How do I know? Friends in the industry.
08-21-09, 12:15 AM
#19
Lexus Champion
If BMW and Audi(as well as Bosch and Continental Automotive) does this, they are violating a a trade rule that allows aftermarket flashing of ECUs with OEM firmware.
08-21-09, 12:19 AM
#20
Lexus Champion
Also, Toyota is building its own operating system and hardware architecture, due for production in 2015. If you don't think that will keep Scion/Toyota/Lexus from being cracked, you're really confused.
Why have all the Euro cars been hacked? Because European programmers can be bought, and the aftermarket will pay to get the crypto keys. Why has Toyota never been cracked? Because the Japanese programmers can't be bought. How do I know? Friends in the industry.
Why have all the Euro cars been hacked? Because European programmers can be bought, and the aftermarket will pay to get the crypto keys. Why has Toyota never been cracked? Because the Japanese programmers can't be bought. How do I know? Friends in the industry.
Also, the new Toyota ECU solution is also being adopted by Keihin as well, which is of course Honda. I also read Nissan/Hitachi maybe on board as well.
08-21-09, 05:02 AM
#21
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08-21-09, 07:07 AM
#22
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08-21-09, 07:59 AM
#24
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08-21-09, 09:55 AM
#26
08-21-09, 03:32 PM
#27
Lexus Champion
Honestly I don't blame car companies. If you're a consumer and want to mess with the stock performance of the car and expect warranty work to be done you're gambling. It's not exactly fair for someone to pay for your own misfortunes/mistakes. You take the risk when you change something that the car makers aren't intending to warranty.
i dont' understand why bmw has to go to that step however. why not just tel lthe customer, "if you want to reflash it, fine, but you don't get any engine or trans issues covered under warranty". that leaves it open to people who accept the responsibility and want to play with their toys.
08-21-09, 07:18 PM
#28
Lexus Test Driver
I think the real reason BMW is doing this is because they do not want their cheaper cars like the 135i and 335i to outpeform the M3, with just a thousand dollars of mods and ECU tweaks. The potential for the N54 six cylinder twin turbo could be endless, but BMW because of money wants the more expensive car i.e. M3 to be the fastest. It's a shame BMW used to care only about peformance on the track and did tuning to what will be best in that enviorment , now it is only about selling the highest priced car they can to you.
08-21-09, 07:50 PM
#29
I think the real reason BMW is doing this is because they do not want their cheaper cars like the 135i and 335i to outpeform the M3, with just a thousand dollars of mods and ECU tweaks. The potential for the N54 six cylinder twin turbo could be endless, but BMW because of money wants the more expensive car i.e. M3 to be the fastest. It's a shame BMW used to care only about peformance on the track and did tuning to what will be best in that enviorment , now it is only about selling the highest priced car they can to you.
08-22-09, 04:54 PM
#30
BMW doesnt seem to realize that the increase in sales these days are due to the modability of these cars and a lot of yound buyers are putting up the cash.... if they limit them from modding the cars ... could have a adverse effect on the tuner market.. ultimately a decrease in sales... may be they will have few warranty claims.. but as a manufacturer who is all about performance should not be a hypocrite ... any which way thier cars fail in stock/brand new form... maybe they ought to pay more attention to making reliable cars first before they go knocking the wall down on the tuners!!