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iTrader: (3)

Can someone photoshop the beak on a Lexus? 2GS plz?

I8ABMR

If acura is putting economy over performance then do they still have to make ll of their cars FWD??? Is the car more efficient if its FWD. I dont think so , but not 10% sure.


I think Acura needs to create a small rwd car that would be a RWD family member to the deceased RSX. With the high revving motor and solid build quality it would take off IMO

mmarshall

Well, assuming that that really IS an Acura-Civic, and not just an Acura grille stuck on a Civic for cosmetic or show purposes, an interesting question arises that, if Acura is REALLY interested in fuel economy, WHY doesn't it offer, in the U.S., an upmarket, more plush version of the Civic Hybrid? A rebadged Insight would be out of the question (it is, IMO, too small, too cramped, too noisy, and has too jerky a drivetrain to be an Acura), but a plush, redone Civic Hybrid would, IMO, probably make a good competitor to the Lexus HS250.

(Maybe Acura has some plans here that we just don't know about, and haven't been released)

SLegacy99

How long have I been saying put the Accord hybrid powertrain in the TL. ...And they are "studying" it. What a dumb company.

mmarshall

No. The Accord Hybrid was a flop....that's why it was dropped. Unlike the Civic Hybrid, the Accord Hybrid offered little, if any, real fuel-MPG inprovement over either conventional 4 or V6-equipped Accords, yet cost substantially more. It was a attempt, on paper, to compete with the Camry Hybrid, and, for the most part, was unsuccessful.

Now, the Civic Hybrid.......that's a different story. Though not as fuel-miserly as the Prius, the Civic Hybrid offers some real MPG improvements over conventional Civics (though most conventional Civics are not exactly gas hogs either). And the Civic Hybrid, IMO, handles noticeably better than the Prius. Its only downside, as a hybrid, is the somewhat jerky and unrefined nature of its IMA coming off an idle-stop or when the electric motor kicks in.....the Prius blows it away in powertrain smoothness and versatility. I noticed some of the same jerky IMA powertrain characteristics in the Insight.

RX_330

The CSX really is pretty much a rebadged Civic. The front and rear ends are a little different (mostly the lights are a little different) but everything else is pretty much the same.

LexFather

Well Mike Honda continues to rebadge Hondas and call them Acuras, clearly in the case of the CSX and TSX. The HS is based on the Avensis platform but unlike what Honda does, it is a clean sheet redesign inside and out and its the worlds first luxury hybrid.

In Europe the Avensis is in the same class as the Euro-Accord (TSX). I've read reviews where the Avensis is picked as the better vehicle and I've read reviews where the Euro-Accord is picked as the better vehicle.

The CSX would not be HS competition, it wouldn't be A3 competition or 1 series competition. It would slot below all those cars.

The CSX would be like Toyota rebadging a Corolla (Civic is Corolla competition) and calling it a Lexus and we know that would NEVER happen.

mmarshall

I agree that the CSX would probably not be as slick a machine as the HS, but my point was that a hybrid CSX, based on the Civic Hybrid, would give Acura a lot more credibility in the high-fuel-economy range than it has now.
That seems to be the basic topic of the thread title......putting MPG ahead of performance.

(Thanks, BTW .........I was unaware that Acura used the CSX designation and produced this car; that's the first I've heard of it until you mentioned it. You've returned the favor I did you several years ago when I showed you that Korean vehicles were now worth looking at)

LexFather

No problem Mike it used to be called the Acura EL, they changed it to CSX b/c they like to have names that mean nothing and to confuse people. Now here is the thing, Acura remember said they dropped the RSX to "move upwards". Sounds like they should have kept it.

This is literally a Civic rebadge and they should be ashamed to pawn this off with a luxury badge. I cannot understand for the life of me how an "engineering company" can't figure out how to produce
-class leading hybrids
-V-6s with class leading MPG
-Direct Injection

Mike, BMW and Lexus in particular let owners have their cake and eat it too. Class leading power and MPG. That is ENGINEERING and ADVANCE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acura_EL

Nextourer

1sickLex basically gave you all 3 generations of EL/CSX. I remember back then when a 1.6EL cost the same as a Corolla 1.8 LE. Yup! An Acura for the price of a Corolla. That continued on with the 1.7EL pictured above. The 1.6EL above is the Sport model. It came in base (wheel covers), Sport (painted alloys) and premium models (machined-finish alloys). The 1.7EL came in Touring and Premium models and one pictured is an updated 2004 model.

On the outside, the CSX has different grilles, bumpers and taillights differentiate it from the Civic (as well as rims of course). On the inside, you get nicer cloth, woodtrim, automatic climate control and paddle shifters among other things. The Premium adds leather (not exactly the best quality TBH), HIDs and better stereo.


You kinda have to wonder what's the difference btwn a Civic EX-L and a CSX Premium. There's a CAD $4-5k difference and you're getting only a few more upgrades for not much more badge snobability and you pay Acura maintenance vs. Honda maintenance. Now if the CSX was priced like the EL was, it made more sense. But Acura wanted to move upmarket and one way they know how is to raise the prices to make their vehicles look more expensive. I don't know but a price hike of $1-2k is ridiculous. For $30k, i'd get a Golf GTI or even a Camry SE with better materials, more space and less ownership cost.

The extra power in the CSX (155hp) kinda gets offset by its heavier weight so performance is on par with the Civic.

mmarshall

With Acuras, you can (probably) get a lot of non-warranty maintenance/repairs done at lower-priced Honda shops.....both, of course, use the same fluids, filters, and some common parts. I know that's the case with some (not all) Toyota shops....they can do non-warranty-related Lexus work. Lexus honors Toyota maintenance because it is a Toyota division.....I don't see why Acura wouldn't do the same with Honda. Warranty claims/repairs, though, for a number of reasons, are another matter......they have to be done by the division that actually built the car.

SLegacy99

Ah, but think of the time. It was the most powerful Accord then. Which, the market did not need. However, this powertrain would clearly be ideal for a TL or TSX that averages 30 MPG instead of the 24ish of the current ones.

Nextourer

well repairs and claims need to be done through Acura to get the correct parts, but yeah I guess maintenance can be done through Honda (or Toyota for Lexus).

The TCH wasn't out when the HAH went on sale in 2005. It was based on the EX-V6 minus a moonroof (which was added in 2006 in Canada) to save weight (change of mind in 2006?).

IS-SV

Back to the original topic, Acura is talking a strange game if they really want to be considered a builder of premium vehicles.

mmarshall

We weren't that far off-topic. The thread issue is fuel economy vs. performance in Acuras, and we were discussing the fact, and possible reasons why, that Acura has chosen not to use hybrids in their American-spec vehicles.

And, as far as a builder of "premium" vehicles, can anyone really define the term "premium", in an automotive sense? My own definition, just for the record, would be a vehicle that is more biased towards luxury and/or performance than what most people, today, would consider necessary for basic transporation. And remember, what, today, is considered "necessary" for basic transportation is constantly changing due to both government-mandated new-car equipment and general consumer preferences.