1SICKBLOG: The RX 450h and 30MPG, unappreciated and what ever vehicle should offer
#151
Lexus Champion
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E85 simply stores less energy than petrol, so it is to be expected that you get lesser mpg. It would be OK if it was 3 times cheaper than petrol and available in abundance. But its not so like you said it yourself, its a waste of time. The only reason manufacturers even make their cars "E85" compatible is probably to get some tax credits from the govt.
#152
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E85 simply stores less energy than petrol, so it is to be expected that you get lesser mpg. It would be OK if it was 3 times cheaper than petrol and available in abundance. But its not so like you said it yourself, its a waste of time. The only reason manufacturers even make their cars "E85" compatible is probably to get some tax credits from the govt.
So if a hybrid used E85, it would be a total waste as a hybrid is already SULEV compliant and no other cars are.
#153
450: $41,660 (32/28/30 MPG)
350: $38,125 (18/25/21 MPG)
a difference of $3535.
15,000 miles a year
450: 500 gallons of gas consumed each year
350: 714 gallons of gas consumed each year
a difference of 214 gallons
So, I guess we shall do this with premium fuel, though if anyone's interested I haven't found a difference in fuel grades and performance with the 400h, anyway
if 93 octane is $2.89 a gallon
450: $1445 spent each year
350: $2064 spent each year
a difference of $619
Thus it would take roughly 5 years to recoup the cost difference of the hybrid, assuming your state offers no tax rebates, which mine does so it would be 4 years in Pennsylvania just FYI. So if you were purley buying the vehicle for fuel savings and not for say power, then you would need to keep the vehicle about 5 years to break even. Not too shabby.
But lets do it again just to see what these numbers would look like if gas got back up to $4.00 a gallon
So, $4.00 for 93 octane, driving 15,000 miles a year
450: $2000 for the year
350: $2856
a difference of $856.
Divide $856 into $3535 and your payback period is reduced to just a hair over 4 years.
In conclusion, it makes more sense from a fuel savings standpoint to purchase the RX450h over the 350 than it did to purchase the 400h over the 350 (sec. gen.).
#154
E85 simply stores less energy than petrol, so it is to be expected that you get lesser mpg. It would be OK if it was 3 times cheaper than petrol and available in abundance. But its not so like you said it yourself, its a waste of time. The only reason manufacturers even make their cars "E85" compatible is probably to get some tax credits from the govt.
#155
Lexus Fanatic
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I do not believe you, unless they are some underground "filling statios" operated out of some restaurants basement. Until there are filling stations on every corner much like petrol stations, where you can swiple your card and fill your tank, all alternative fuels are irrelevant, be it biodiesel, hydrogen, e85, whatever.
http://www.biodiesel.org/buyingbiodi...s/biomaps.shtm
Right now petrol is simply the most common and the most "convenient" fuel. It is readily available, there are no maintenance issues that it causes, and the RX is simply making the best of it.
Once again, biodiesel & E85 are alternative fuels. Owners of diesels and E85 compliant hybrids are not limited to standard diesel & standard gasoline. The choice is there for those who seek it. Add any scenerio you wish from oil fields in the Middle East burning down, gas prices shooting to $6.00 a gallon because Obama does not like gun owners. At least folks with compatible vehicles will have no worries pumping alternative fuels into their eco ride.
#156
Lexus Champion
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There are a number of things "not to believe" on the internet. That is why pics & links add validity to an arguement... I will let you do the honors Och.. I live in Cambria Heights, NY zip 11411 type it in this link & see what you get. No, the filling stations are not in the Brooklyn basement..
http://www.biodiesel.org/buyingbiodi...s/biomaps.shtm
http://www.biodiesel.org/buyingbiodi...s/biomaps.shtm
So basically the whole NYC has two stations - one in Bronx and one in Brooklyn. Where do you get four in your immediate area?
And I highly doubt that these are your familiar, convenient stations. They are fuel oil places, probably just a warehouse where you can buy a jug of biodiesel.
Until theres a convenient readily available infrastructure of biodiesel fuel stations, it is irrelevant.
Once again, biodiesel & E85 are alternative fuels. Owners of diesels and E85 compliant hybrids are not limited to standard diesel & standard gasoline. The choice is there for those who seek it. Add any scenerio you wish from oil fields in the Middle East burning down, gas prices shooting to $6.00 a gallon because Obama does not like gun owners. At least folks with compatible vehicles will have no worries pumping alternative fuels into their eco ride.
#157
executive matchup
ideally, sources of "clean" energy should rely on natural sources - like solar, wind, and wave energy. we shouldn't use energy (like gasoline or coal) to create energy, it's a waste of time, money, and resources.
#158
Lexus Champion
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speaking of hydrogen, i recall seeing a documentary that stated there are pros and cons of hydrogen power. yes it's clean, but it is inefficient source of energy, in that you need to use energy to convert the raw energy source into hydrogen. so from a "green" perspective, you are still contributing to greenhouse gases (correct me if i'm wrong here).
ideally, sources of "clean" energy should rely on natural sources - like solar, wind, and wave energy. we shouldn't use energy (like gasoline or coal) to create energy, it's a waste of time, money, and resources.
ideally, sources of "clean" energy should rely on natural sources - like solar, wind, and wave energy. we shouldn't use energy (like gasoline or coal) to create energy, it's a waste of time, money, and resources.
A simple battery pack is more efficient than hydrogen, but hydrogen has an advantage over battery pack is that a tank of hydrogen will provide a longer driving range than a battery pack, and that it could be refueled fast, if the infrastructure is there, whereas it takes hours to recharge batteries.
But the battery technology is advancing fast, and soon enough we might see batteries that can provide longer driving range than hydrogen. And there can also be battery exchage/recharge stations that will make recharging a non issue. Therefore I dont think hydrogen will ever become a viable alternative fuel unless someone comes up with a way of extracting it that uses much less energy than it can generate.
But the biggest issue, is that neither an electric car or a hydrogen car is clean. The electricity that is used to recharge batteries or extract hydrogen is generated at power plants by burning fossil fuels, mostly oil and coal. So boys and girls, petrol isnt going anywhere any time soon.
#159
you just cannot ignore the fact that the RXh is a hybrid and compare it to a gas powered smart or fit and say it even beats economy cars!!!111!!1
kudos!
anyway, still waiting for a response on the escape hybrid.
#160
#161
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The ML bluetec however is just pathetic. Its fuel economy is barely better than petrol ML, I just looked it up, and were talking 16 vs 18mpg in the city and 21 vs 24 mpg highway. That is pathetic!!! They could probably get the same mpg from the petrol if they added direct injection. And in turn you pay premium, sacrifice performance and smoothness, most likely sacrifice reliability as the turbocharged engine with all kinds of exaust cleaning systems wont be as reliable as regular petrol, will have to deal with higher service costs. I understand that its peformance is acceptable, but why sacrifice if you dont gain anything in return?
What are you going to say if Mercedes brings out an ML Bluetec Hybrid, theoretically speaking. With an electric motor that handles the initial acceleration fuel economy should rise dramatically. I wouldn't be surprised if this ML Bluetec Hybrid would surpass the RX450h in gas mileage.
What are you going to say? Bluetec = FAILURE?
Explain this to me however. I'm gonna make some statements about diesels that I believe are true, and you can correct me if I am wrong. I'm talking about regular good old simple diesels, not the complicated bluetecs and the such.
1) Regular diesels are allowed on sale in most of Europe (they are not allowed on sale in several US states).
1) Regular diesels are allowed on sale in most of Europe (they are not allowed on sale in several US states).
Classic diesel cars are exempt from this rule.
Your last statement about people willing to pay more just so they don't have to drive a diesel is complete and utter BS. Owning a diesel in Europe is actually more expensive because of the diesel tax and emission taxation. Put it pays out if you drive long distances (say over 9,000 miles per year). In that case the mileage of a diesel can't be beaten.
When I had my C200 CDI diesel and was touring Europe, it wasn't uncommon for my car to return 5.3 liters per 100 km (44 mpg) at a cruising speed of 120-130 kph.
Well the bluetec diesel isnt warranted in any car, because its a failure. A classic diesel isnt warranted in luxury cars no matter how you look at it, unless your only objective is fuel economy. But then you said it yourself, MB isnt a value oriented purchase, so economy should be the least of the concern, right?
A Mercedes isn't a value purchase. Right. But that doesn't mean somebody buying one doesn't want good fuel economy. People are willing to pay for expensive cars but they also want fuel economy, especially nowadays.
It is really narrow minded if you claim that nobody buying an expensive car will care about fuel economy just because they can afford it. It doesn't work that way. There are people who enjoy expensive cars but want good gas mileage.
As far as the handling part is concerned, the GS handles better than E class, at least the non AMG model. The E class is a real pig in corners, although its steering is a bit more direct compared to the GS' sloppy steering. In any case, nobody drives these cars at the limit on streets, and quite frankly this whole "driving dynamics" that the entire internet is arguing about is pretty irrelevant. The truth is, the difference in handling between a stock GS, E and 5 series is marginal, and for an average driver its completely irrelevant. And if you plan taking any of these cars to the track, you know you will modify the suspension anyway.
Maybe Lexus can catch up or exceed the E class when they release the new model.
No, the Insight is a POS because of how its built and how it drives. It still drives and feels like an experimental concept car from early 90ies. It much worse than a comparable non hybrid car (ie Fit). In comparison, the Prius and RX are much better than comparable non hybrid cars (ie Yaris and non hybrid RX).
That's no reason to call the Insight a POS. How about a "good effort"?
#162
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Oh please. The E class handles better than the GS. This has been proven and stated often enough. The last generation E class handled worlds better than the GS and was also more comfortable according to many reviews. The same is true for the current E class.
Maybe Lexus can catch up or exceed the E class when they release the new model.
So let's assume that this is Honda's second attempt at a hybrid. Obviously they have ways to go to match or exceed Toyota.
That's no reason to call the Insight a POS. How about a "good effort"?
Maybe Lexus can catch up or exceed the E class when they release the new model.
So let's assume that this is Honda's second attempt at a hybrid. Obviously they have ways to go to match or exceed Toyota.
That's no reason to call the Insight a POS. How about a "good effort"?
2. The Insight has been panned in most reviews for being a pretty lethargic attempt. Its not like Honda rushed it they had YEARS to make a Prius killer. Instead we get a knock-off looking Prius that gets worse MPG than the old Prius with less room and less performance.
Clarkson said it best.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/dri...cle6294116.ece
#163
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i guess you and i are the only ones in this thread that haven't drank the koolaid.
you just cannot ignore the fact that the RXh is a hybrid and compare it to a gas powered smart or fit and say it even beats economy cars!!!111!!1
kudos!
anyway, still waiting for a response on the escape hybrid.
you just cannot ignore the fact that the RXh is a hybrid and compare it to a gas powered smart or fit and say it even beats economy cars!!!111!!1
kudos!
anyway, still waiting for a response on the escape hybrid.
So since you are so much the debate champ, tell me, name a direct competitior to the RX 450h. I mean you want me to compare it to one right.
So find it and post it and we can talk about it.
Find and post a 295hp or somewhere in that area a luxury SUV that gets 30 MPG and is a hybrid that is not the RX but its competitior.
When you post that, then you can say your previous post(s) have some merit. Otherwise you simply want to disagree with what I presented.
Which again, is fine.
We are waiting...
#165
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