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iTrader: (3)

The point is not to compare prices of one vehicle to another, the point is that the hybrid technology is working, and Lexus is the company thats number one in making the best of it. For several years now haters have been running their mouths how hybrid technology is too expensive, how hybrid cars are slow and dreadful, and how clean diesels are going to totally destroy it in performance, driveability, cost and economy.

And here we are, this latest Lexus is faster, smoother and more economical than any comparable petrol, its even more economical than dreadful econoboxes such as Fit and Yaris, and where are these long promised clean diesels?

SLegacy99

I think the only thing that is holding automakers back at this point is battery availability. Ford can't boost production because they simply don't have the batteries.

Furthermore, I think Toyota needs a small 4 cylinder 2.0 to 2.2L's for Camry and Rav 4 hybrids. I know that they will install the new 2.5L I4 in the Camry hybrid to compete with Altima and Fusion, putting it around 200 HP, but is that HP neccessary to sell a hybrid? Today perhaps. 5 years from now, maybe not.

DASHOCKER

iTrader: (2)

All of this time, I was thinking that the Rx450h was avg. 30 mpg in 4wd form.. Instead, it is avg 30 mpg in 2wd form.. They still make 2wd suvs?? Is it rear of front wheel drive for the Rx?

SLegacy99

The RX is FWD.

werewolf

For SUVs I think diesel engine options are a better choice than hybrid. Why?

1) Weight and torque
2) Lower development costs - many car makers have existing diesel engine sold abroad
3) Lower to consumer price - as mentioned 60 large is not the sweet spot of the RX demographic

You don't need a 3.0 liter diesel to push a SUV. Car makers could go smaller but the prestige issue will get in the way. (would you pay 45K for a 2.0tD?)

This thread brings up a good point. For all the eco discussion, most SUVs makers haven't done much on MPG improvements.

IS-SV

No 4WD option, (I assume you are talking about the hybrid btw)?

SLegacy99

I could argue against all 3 points.

1. Weight. Hybrids and diesels both carry a weight penalty. Hybrids have heavy batteries. A diesel has a heavier engine block than a gasoline engine. Thus the suspension must be fortified, adding weight. Torque: Diesels have alot of it. Hybrids do to. I'd estimate that the advantage of a diesel comes in when towing heavy loads of 3000 lbs. or more, depending on the vehicle in question.

2. Cost. Existing diesels don't cut it in the States. They can't simply be sold here without measures made to meet emissions standards. This translates to R & D costs. Furthermore, the ML and X5 require urea injections to meet emissions. I believe that BMW has it covered in their 4 year maint. program. After that the consumer pays to have the tank refilled. If the tank runs dry, you have a certain of starts before the engine locks you out.

3. Price. The prices speak for themselves. Base prices for luxury alt. fuel SUVs:
RXh: $41,660 (32/28 MPG)
ML 320 CDI: $48,600 (18/24 MPG)
X5d: $51,200 (18/25)

The RX is the cheapest by far, while offering the best fuel economy. I disagree that Lexus buyers don't spend $60k on the RX. It should be noted that $55k was as high as I could get the build price on the Lexus website. The RX has had the title of no. 1 selling Luxury utilility vehicle for sometime. I think there are plenty of buyers willing to spend $55K.

SLegacy99

The RX450h is offered in both FWD and AWD forms, just like the RX350, 330, 300, and 400h.

The RX450h: is rated for 32/28 in FWD and 30/28 in AWD forms.

IS-SV

Thanks for the info. The AWD fuel economy penalty is pretty typical, probably involves a lower final drive ratio like most.

LexFather

My point is not price, I am talking strictly from a technology standpoint and the MPG ratings. If you want to judge the RX on price, be my guest but that is not the point here.

My point is simple, its quite stunning this vehicle the 450h AWD or 2WD, (hell NO MATTER the price) gets MPG on par or better than MOST sub-compacts and compacts.

You can spin it anyway you want, add price, add people, add goats, subtract martians, subtract tax the MPG RATINGS DO NOT CHANGE.


30 MPG 2WD
29 MPG AWD (yes a shocking 1 MPG less)
Yes most companies offer 2WD SUVs with a AWD or 4x4 option. I thought you were a "choice" guy.

Thank you. If you miss the basic jest of the blog, I am quite frankly stunned you figured out how to join an internet forum.
I posted the diesel ML numbers 20 MPG avg, not so good. The BMW X5 diesel has a 22 MPG avg. Lower than the RX but its not bad compared to some smaller less luxurious SUVs.

SLegacy99

Well recall that the 400 and 450h don't utilize a rear drive shaft. An electric motor is the only drive of the rear wheels. Thus, given the rigorous testing of the EPA city fuel eco. test, I would assume that the rear electric motor sucks enough power from the battery, along with the front, that the ICE has to come on to provide some charge to the battery, hence the 2 MPG penalty. Though I could be wrong. I don't know how much braking is involved during the test to recharge the battery, without the use of the ICE.

SLegacy99

It is. And even compare it to the Camry hybrid. 32/30 for the RX vs. 33/34. Thus the RX is incredibly impressive and the Camry could stand to benefit from the updated hybrid tech.

IS-SV

Yes, I remember how they drive rear wheels, similar to Highlander hybrid setup.

SLegacy99

Ok, well I don't think a lower final drive ratio is the reasoning.

LexFather

Surely the CTh will also benefit from the improved tech. Lets hope the next GX offers it soon, it surely has the space for the hybrid tech. It only avgs 15 MPG