View Poll Results: Which do you prefer?
The 3.0 tt from BMW
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15
16.30%
The 3.0 tt from Toyota
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64
69.57%
I like both and can't chose one over the other
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5
5.43%
Hybrids ftw!!
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8
8.70%
Voters: 92. You may not vote on this poll
1SICKBLOG: Toyota Supra 3.0 TT 320hp in 1993 19 MPG. BMW 3.0 TT 300hp in 2009 20 MPG
#61
Lexus Champion
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So taking the cars themselves out of the equation in the end we can agree that 13 years later the BMW 3.0tt came out and provided somewhat better fuel economy, considerably more off-idle torque, a much flatter torque curve, eliminated turbo lag altogether, offered similar peak power, and is probably considerably less capable of handling heavy modifications.
For the average car buyer who is not going to mod or mod lightly, I see the BMW as progress as usual for a 13 year span. Nothing amazing, but it is obviously an improvement over what was already a great motor 13 years ago.
For the enthusiast who's interested in making tons of power on their factory motor, yeah, I'd probably look back at the 2JZ and think how good I had it back then.
For the average car buyer who is not going to mod or mod lightly, I see the BMW as progress as usual for a 13 year span. Nothing amazing, but it is obviously an improvement over what was already a great motor 13 years ago.
For the enthusiast who's interested in making tons of power on their factory motor, yeah, I'd probably look back at the 2JZ and think how good I had it back then.
#63
Lexus Fanatic
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So taking the cars themselves out of the equation in the end we can agree that 13 years later the BMW 3.0tt came out and provided somewhat better fuel economy, considerably more off-idle torque, a much flatter torque curve, eliminated turbo lag altogether, offered similar peak power, and is probably considerably less capable of handling heavy modifications.
For the average car buyer who is not going to mod or mod lightly, I see the BMW as progress as usual for a 13 year span. Nothing amazing, but it is obviously an improvement over what was already a great motor 13 years ago.
For the enthusiast who's interested in making tons of power on their factory motor, yeah, I'd probably look back at the 2JZ and think how good I had it back then.
For the average car buyer who is not going to mod or mod lightly, I see the BMW as progress as usual for a 13 year span. Nothing amazing, but it is obviously an improvement over what was already a great motor 13 years ago.
For the enthusiast who's interested in making tons of power on their factory motor, yeah, I'd probably look back at the 2JZ and think how good I had it back then.
#64
Tech Info Resource
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Old muscle car guys feel the same way about the old motors vs the new motors. The aluminum block LS series motors were once thought to be inferior to the old iron block motors yet have been proven to be solid as time went on.. These aluminum motors, in addition to electronic tuning, are being turbo & superchargered with little issue.. Modifications are getting better & better for new motors with the advancement of technology.. The N54 potential is just being tapped..
Aluminum deforms more easily than cast iron, it's obvious from aluminum's Young's modulus numbers. It's also lighter. Casting an iron liner into aluminum doesn't overcome this material's limitations. So an iron block will potentially make more power because the walls are thicker and the material will tolerate more force before permanent deformation. All the old school guys know this.
Sure you can pump up an aluminum block, but the ultimate limit will be lower and the service life will be shorter. Just like aluminum rods - they're really light and work well for drag racing where you plan to replace them every run. You'll never see them in a street production engine because the service life will never be acceptable to the motoring public.
Last edited by lobuxracer; 09-01-09 at 12:19 PM.
#65
Tech Info Resource
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IMHO, the biggest plus for the N54 TT is the VATN turbos. They were experimental in the 90's. Porsche finally built a VATN turbo reliable enough for a production car. Now everybody has them and they really are a LOT better than the old school turbos everybody had in the 90's. They're just not easy to retrofit because they work best with electronic control integrated into the rest of the ECM's functions.
#66
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IMHO, the biggest plus for the N54 TT is the VATN turbos. They were experimental in the 90's. Porsche finally built a VATN turbo reliable enough for a production car. Now everybody has them and they really are a LOT better than the old school turbos everybody had in the 90's. They're just not easy to retrofit because they work best with electronic control integrated into the rest of the ECM's functions.
#67
Tech Info Resource
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Porsche didn't come out with the design. Aerocharger did in 1976. Corky Bell had them in his book on turbochargers. It took Porsche to make them viable in a production engine.
#74
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