bagwell

RIP.

I think I would just put the damn thing in neutral if I was going 100mph without my foot on the gas!!!

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

sadly not enough is done in drivers ed also to train drivers how to deal with a situation like this

CrazyTrain

Sad news for this family in San Diego...

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stori...p-lexus-crash/

96SC4

iTrader: (2)

horrible story...
my buddy has a Camry hybrid with that mat issue.. it's happened to him a few times already. Needs to get his @$$ to the dealer for his new mats before this happens to him

JessePS

Freaky. Last week my dad got a ES as a loaner :/

I am just curious what would of happened if he used the e-brake and put the car in park?

iKenn

iTrader: (1)

hold down the power button to shut the engine off.

lucasb7

This is definitely a very scary situation. Although still possible, luckily the more powerful Lexus models (ISF, GS450h, and IS350 come to mind) use a floor mounted petal rather than a hanging technique. I have not heard of this problem take place on these petal designs. Lexus really needs to get on top of this problem.

apex47

A tragic fatal accident happened over the weekend in my area that brought up some concerns with Lexus cars. Please read this recent article listed below for reference:
http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stori...p-lexus-crash/

The car involved in the accident was a 2009 ES350 loaner from Bob Baker Lexus.

In the event that our GS were to lock up and we weren't able to decelerate, what is the best plan of action with all the technology that goes into our electronics?

Also, since we have a have a push button start/stop, what happens when that button is pushed while in motion in both "DRIVE" and "NEUTRAL"?

dsp979

A chp officer should know how to control that car. Aren't they supposed to go thru some driver training?

This is another reason i detest too much electronics in cars, and love having a manual tranny. I don't have to turn off the car, just throw it in neutral, steer and stomp on the brakes.

lucasb7

My preferred method would be to put the car into nuetral because then you still get the added brake assist. However if worse comes to worst you can hold the power button for 3 seconds and the engine will turn off.

PS: There is a larger thread about this in the Car Chat section if you have any other questions.

Kendrick07

I think I just cut my reaction time by five times by reading this if it happened to me.

greyhndfan

Wow. I read about this too, didn't know he was driving a lexus. I gotta inspect my floor mats too now.

tunedis95

so hold the start button for 3 seconds to turn off the car right???

I8ABMR

I am confused. If the accelerator gets stuck cant you still hit the brakes

I8ABMR

just found this


RELATED TERMS: SAN DIEGO, EL CAJON, MISSION GORGE, SANTEE, CHULA VISTA, DEL MAR

Fatal crash continues to raise questions
By Craig Gustafson and Debbi Baker
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITERS
Originally published 10:48 a.m. August 31, 2009, updated 7:10 p.m., August 31, 2009

STUCK ACCELERATOR
Car experts recommend trying the following actions if the accelerator becomes stuck while a vehicle is moving:

Repeatedly step on the gas pedal to jar it loose.

Step on the clutch to disengage the gears or shift the vehicle into neutral.

If all else fails, turn the vehicle off. This option could cause loss of power steering or lock the steering wheel in place.

SAN DIEGO — A fiery crash that killed a California Highway Patrol officer and three family members continues to raise questions as investigators try to determine whether their loaner car's accelerator stuck and what – if anything – could have prevented Friday's tragedy.

The 2009 Lexus ES 350 came from Bob Baker Lexus El Cajon, where CHP officer Mark Saylor of Chula Vista had dropped off his regular vehicle for servicing.

Toyota, which makes Lexus cars, had recalled the “all weather” floor mats in its 2008 version of that car model because of complaints about them sliding forward and jamming the accelerator. A sales manager at Bob Baker Lexus said he wasn't sure which mats were in the Lexus loaned to Saylor.

On Monday, Toyota issued a statement saying the company is deeply sorry to hear about the Saylor incident.

“We are unable to comment on this tragic accident until all the facts are known,” the statement said. “It is important to avoid speculation and allow any investigation to run its course.”

It's not known whether Saylor, a 19-year CHP officer whose job entails vehicle safety inspections, tried to shut off the engine or put the car in neutral – the two most common ways to slow down a vehicle with a stuck accelerator.

Car experts said it's not always that simple.

An electrical or mechanical failure could have made it impossible to shift into neutral, said Daniel Vomhof III, a vehicle accident reconstructionist with La Mesa-based Expert Witness Services.

Shutting off the engine also can be tricky because most modern vehicles will then lock the steering wheel, leaving the driver unable to steer, Vomhof said.

Asked if drivers have a third option, he replied: “Pray a lot.”

Another complication: A report by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration found that some Lexus drivers with stuck accelerators tried to turn off the car with the engine control button but didn't know the button must be held for three seconds.

The agency's researchers recorded seven crashes, 12 injuries and 40 complaints involving the recalled floor mats in Toyota vehicles.

They also said that when the throttle pedal is fully open unintentionally, some drivers react by hitting the brakes multiple times. This action depletes the vehicle's vacuum-based power assist, and without that assistance, the brakes must be applied with much more force. Continued driving in that manner can result in overheating the brakes, further diminishing their effectiveness.

Toyota acknowledged the complaints and created new instructions for installing the mats properly. There have been no recalls of the 2009 ES 350, the traffic safety administration said.

On Friday, someone in the Saylors' Lexus called 911 just after 6:30 p.m. to report the stuck accelerator. Witnesses said the car was traveling northbound on state Route 125 in Santee at more than 100 mph when it entered a T-intersection with Mission Gorge Road.

The vehicle slammed into the rear end of a Ford Explorer and then plowed over a curb and through a fence before hitting an embankment and going airborne. It rolled several times before stopping and bursting into flames in the nearby San Diego River basin.

The CHP said those killed were Saylor, 45; his wife, Cleofe, 45; his daughter, Mahala, 13; and his brother-in-law, Chris Lastrella, 38.

The accident was a wake-up call for some Lexus owners.

Marcelle Khalil of Del Mar, a pharmacist who drives a 2006 Lexus GS 300, said she had a problem with her accelerator two weeks ago. It stuck as she drove into her employer's parking lot and she narrowly missed a truck before slamming into a curb.

Khalil said she was positive she didn't step on the gas instead of the brake, but began to doubt herself until she read about the Saylors.

“This could happen to anybody,” she said. “I'm scared to drive my car.”

Blair Carter, a sales manager at Bob Baker Lexus, said “our hearts sunk when we heard” about Friday's accident.

He said the vehicle had a double redundant fail-safe system that should have shut the car off if there were a major malfunction, and that he had never heard of a situation in which the accelerator was stuck and the car couldn't be stopped.

“I would get in any of our cars today with my family and drive to Maine,” Carter said.

Debbi Baker: (619) 293-1710;
Craig Gustafson: (619) 293-1399;

RELATED TERMS: SAN DIEGO, EL CAJON, MISSION GORGE, SANTEE, CHULA VISTA, DEL MAR

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vet1968 9 seconds ago
When you turn control of a vehicle over to a computer you just have to hope that it works. that it works. that it works.
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RightWingNutter 6 minutes ago
Accelerator lockups on an assortment of vehicles have been happening for years. Suggestions for regaining control are usually turn it off, or shift to neutral. With automatic transmissions this often doesn't work.

One strategy I've never seen suggested (if the above don't work and traffic permitting) is to throw the car into S turns and sideways slides to bleed off speed. When the forward speed gets down to a controllable point, lock the wheel to the left or right and let the car turn doughnuts. The tires may blow, but that will only decrease the traction and let the vehicle slow down. You may even be able to (at the reduced speed) clip a guardrail or tree or the like to stop the vehicle while the drive wheels keep spinning.

The idea is to bleed off energy and eventually direct the engines energy into trying to move an immovable object.

Any comments from someone who has training in high performance driving?
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gib316 35 minutes ago
Good thing my Ford has floormats that have a hook holding them in place......but then again that is an american vehicle for you....maybe not as pretty or nice to be in but they do have alot of the simple things figured out....

Such a horrible loss. I was driving by there today and I can only imagine how bad that was to see happen.....what a mess.

RIP to those that were lost. And prayers for the family of the deceased.
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hippcatt 54 minutes ago
I'm glad that I don't drive a Lexus GS 300!
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sdnative10 33 minutes ago
Maybe, but I bet you'll be able to find them soon a lot cheaper than they were a week ago.
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commentor12 Today 09:25 PM
looking at pics of a shifter of a 2009 ES350, it's one of those manumatic deals and if I hopped in it right now it would take a few seconds to to figure out which one of those detents is neutral. I could definetly see in a panic sitaution just slapping the shifter to a downshift that the computer would ignore at 100mph.

And I sure as heck would have never known you had to hold the start button for 3 seonds to shut off the car - maybe something as simple as too much new / unfamiliar tech for a loaner car?

Heck - you practically need a PhD to operate the BMW M cars these days!
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sdnative10 34 minutes ago
A year ago we went to test drive a Prius, which had the keyless electronic controls, at the Toyota dealership. The first salesman who got in couldn't figure out how to even get the car started. He passed us off to a second salesman who started the car up fine but when I asked him to explain the controls and how they worked he couldn't tell us. When we got back from the test drive we had to talk to an embarassed manager to get the answers. Needless to say we didn't but a car from these folks, however, if these people make their livings selling cars and they couldn't even figure out the controls then it not only says something about the salesmen (not too sharp) but also says that the electronic controls on Toyota/Lexus cars can be confusing and certainly aren't intuitive.
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sdpicguy Today 09:14 PM
I have a 2007 Chevy Malibu that has had 3 alternators replaced. When they go bad, the electronic steering locks up and you can't steer the car. GM denies there is a problem with the steering. They replaced the entire steering column and 6 months later, the same thing happened. Alternator again. They claim is shorts out the electronic steering. Not sure why there are no fuses or relays to prevent this from happening. Very dangerous. My point being, I'm sure the Lexus has a keyless ignition start meaning you can't just turn a key to shut it off. I'm sure the 911 tape reveals a lot more info about all of the systems that were failing.

Of course Lexus, like GM will deny a problem.
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baseballguru Today 09:33 PM
You need to hire a reputable personal injury attorney (they will not charge you upfront), and file a lemon claim (if applicable) in this state. You really should pursue it. I encourage all people who have car issues to come forward. It saves lives. Just complaining about it here isn't enough.
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meanJean Today 08:42 PM
I can't get over the irony that part of the officers job was to do safety inspections on school buses, ambulances etc. and yet he was given a loaner car with safety issues. Who is in charge of checking rental fleets, and loaner cars from dealerships with safety inspections, themselves? Is there any law, or guideline, for how often these cars must be inspected? I have wanted a Lexus for a few years but this has definately changed my mind.
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sdcitygirl Today 08:39 PM
Officer Saylor checked our ambulances for Chp inspections for years. He was such a nice individual and every time it came to CHP inspections he alwasy a smile on his face and looked to improve our rigs and the service they got. You and your family are in our prayers
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salena Today 08:37 PM
I once had the accelerator of a Chev Monte Carlo completely fall off while I was driving. I was lucky to be on a main boulevard and able to coast to the curb. I couldn't image if it had been on a congested bumper to bumper freeway, like the 10 Santa Monica fwy in Los Angeles, where I lived at the time, and drove on daily, or if the brake pedal would have fallen off. Something most people probably have never given thought to. Scary stuff.

My heart goes out to the people of this tragic accident and their families.
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alamo889 Today 08:31 PM
Man, if I saw a Lexus going 100mph down the freeway and driving erraticly, I would think it`s just a normal day on the San Diego freeways.
6 people liked this comment.
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baseballguru Today 08:04 PM
This was not a 1999 Mercury Tracer, and the officer had probably been trained on how to react if something like this occurred, so unfortunately I'm having trouble reconciling how he could not disable the car in some way. I don't know how many more facts can be recovered considering the car was burned, but I hope I'm proven wrong. The thing is that you cannot rule out ANYTHING when it comes to people, it's a scary thought, but a reality. People who seem perfectly happy end up doing the craziest things, and this is simply a reality in the world we live in. Again, I hope I'm proven wrong.
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SavannahLady Today 07:42 PM
This web site is very interesting about unexpected acceleration events with ES 2007.

http://2007-lexus-es350.vin.centralclearinghous...

PURCHASED 2007 LEXUS ES 350 IN DECEMBER OF 2006. SOMETIME IN LAST MONTH, WHEN I WAS DRIVING THE VEHICLE ON A HIGHWAY, ITS BRAKE STOPPED WORKING ALL OF A SUDDEN, AND STARTED ACCELERATING BY ITSELF. I LOOKED AT MY FOOT WONDERING IF MY FOOT WAS ON GAS PEDAL, INSTEAD OF BRAKE PEDAL, BUT IT WAS ON BRAKE PEDAL. I WAS IN A TOTAL PANIC, BUT MANAGED TO DROVE THE CAR AWAY TO THE SHOULDER OF THE HIGHWAY BY PUTTING THE CAR IN PARK MODE. I THOUGHT I WAS DEAD AT THAT MOMENT. I AM TRYING TO SUE THE LEXUS. I HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT CAR WILL KILL SOMEONE. BEFORE STARTING A LEGAL PROCEEDING, MY ATTORNEY SENT A LETTER TO LEXUS HEADQUARTER, AND WAS TOLD THAT THE VEHICLE HAD NO PROBLEM, AND THAT THE CAUSE WAS THE FLOOR MAT. BUT, IT WAS NOT. AS I SAID EARLIER, I LOOKED AT MY FOOT WHEN THE VEHICLE DID NOT STOP, AND AFTER I STOPPED THE CAR, I CAREFULLY LOOKED AT BOTH GAS PEDAL AND BRAKE AGAIN. I AM NOT BLIND. HAVE YOU SEEN ANY OTHER COMPLAINTS FOR SIMILAR PROBLEMS? PLEASE LET ME KNOW. IT

ON TWO PRIOR OCCASIONS THE VEHICLE ACCELERATED FROM SPEEDS BETWEEN 20-30 MPH, TO SPEEDS UP TO 50-60 MPH. ON 9/11/07, THE VEHICLE ACCELERATED AT SPEEDS UP TO 80-90 MPH. WE ARE AWARE OF THE LEXUS NOTIFICATION OF FLOOR MAT INTERFERENCE, SO WE REMOVED THE MATS AFTER THE FIRST TWO TIMES, BUT THE LAST AND MOST FRIGHTENING, OCCURRENCE HAPPENED WITHOUT THE MAT IN THE VEHICLE. THE CAR HAD TO BE FORCED INTO PARK IN ORDER TO SLOW IT DOWN TO A HALT. MY WIFE WAS DRIVING THE VEHICLE AT THE TIME AND SHE STATES SHE ALMOST HAD SEVERAL MULTIPLE CAR ACCIDENTS WHILE TRYING TO STOP THE VEHICLE. I HAD THE VEHICLE TOWED TO THE DEALER AND THEY SAID IT'S THE FLOOR MAT, BEFORE EVEN DRIVING THE CAR. WE WON'T DRIVE THE CAR AGAIN UNTIL SOMEONE OTHER THAN LEXUS DETERMINES WHAT THE PROBLEM IS. *TR * *
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ibinsanediego Today 09:01 PM
If you ever decide to use lower case maybe I'll read your comment
2 people liked this comment.
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LunarPeak Today 08:16 PM
I cannot hear you, could you try a loud speaker?
5 people liked this comment.
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SavannahLady Today 08:39 PM
Sorry I'm a newbe at this and didn't understand that all caps must be shouting. I copied as is and pasted these two as examples from my web searches.
2 people liked this comment.
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LunarPeak Today 08:43 PM
No problem, I was trying to keep it humorous, because if you keep using the cap-locks, civil unrest in San Diego could occur when the computer nerds get to critical mass in irritation from seeing such "uncivil" acts of cap locks )
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SavannahLady Today 08:56 PM
I laughed when I figure what bad manners I was displaying. But back to the story I went to the web to figure out what I needed to know if this happened to me. It's an eye opener when you finally find how many people experienced this same problem and how they responded. It's was also interesting that Lexus found no problems in any of these cars after the people had them towed to their dealers.

Hears another site that goes into more detail from these peoples experiences.

http://www.allworldauto.com/comments/2007_lexus...
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baseballguru Today 08:12 PM
Are you moving forward with the lawsuit, since obviously it has been determined that it is not the floor mat? Have you taken the steps to have the car classified as a lemon?
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rdm92021 Today 07:28 PM
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bstone23 Today 07:56 PM
You, are a jack-***.
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localmotion13 Today 07:00 PM
i agree floor mats are dangerous.i've driven several cars to include chevy. ford and chrysler and everytime its the floor mat that gives the accelerator problems. and i avoid driving in flip flops.
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MrsBunny Today 06:08 PM
He may have been driving in flip flops. I used to do that decades ago and you can get those things twisted up in the accelerator pedal and lose control.
2 people liked this comment.
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chulajuana Today 09:03 PM
Better yet, work the accelerator and brake pedals with your hands, and steer with your feet. Only problem is you just barely see over the dashboard, it's tough on your back unless you're really flexible, and flip-flops slide all over the steering wheel.
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