More Audi Arrogance: Audi President "Volt is car for idiots"
09-03-09, 04:17 PM
#31
Lexus Test Driver
09-03-09, 05:05 PM
#33
Dismissing others' new vehicle tech, seems to be a familiar tune...whether it's Carlos Ghosn ridiculing hybrids, then turning around, licensing HSD and finally developing their own, and Audi now against.the Volt and hybrids, it sounds to me to be competitive bluster and puffery. That said, I do think the reported $40,000 price tag of the Volt will prevent it from being the next Prius.
09-03-09, 05:24 PM
#34
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Not a reply to anyone in particular, just adding my $0.02.
I disagree with the form in which the comments were made (i.e., the idiot remark), but there is some substance to the comments: hybrid technology is surrounded by a lot of hype and is too expensive at the moment to be mass-produced and the batteries are not energy-dense enough to allow longer commutes on battery power. Mass production should make price less, but the issue of range on electric still remains, as does the battery replacement in the future, which in my mind would still rule hybrids out as a mainstream vehicle. It takes a lot of saved gas (as a result of being more efficient) to make up the difference in price between a comparable ICE vehicle.
Diesels are available now, but they also have several problems. They are more expensive than gas engines and they do not look like they will pass future emission regulations. Plus, we have a production problem in US which limits supply. I think that the short-term answer is HCCI engines which are expected to introduce advantages of diesels to gasoline engines for a smaller premium than diesels.
Long-term technology winner is anyone's guess, but it has to have a decent range and infrastructure to refill / recharge to be mass-adopted.
I disagree with the form in which the comments were made (i.e., the idiot remark), but there is some substance to the comments: hybrid technology is surrounded by a lot of hype and is too expensive at the moment to be mass-produced and the batteries are not energy-dense enough to allow longer commutes on battery power. Mass production should make price less, but the issue of range on electric still remains, as does the battery replacement in the future, which in my mind would still rule hybrids out as a mainstream vehicle. It takes a lot of saved gas (as a result of being more efficient) to make up the difference in price between a comparable ICE vehicle.
Diesels are available now, but they also have several problems. They are more expensive than gas engines and they do not look like they will pass future emission regulations. Plus, we have a production problem in US which limits supply. I think that the short-term answer is HCCI engines which are expected to introduce advantages of diesels to gasoline engines for a smaller premium than diesels.
Long-term technology winner is anyone's guess, but it has to have a decent range and infrastructure to refill / recharge to be mass-adopted.
09-03-09, 05:26 PM
#35
Lead Lap
The future is the Diesel? Yeah, right. I participated in the last "Dieselmania" in the late 1970s when I purchased a new, pathetic Mercedes Diesel sedan. I ain't going there again - ever. I'll walk or ride a bicycle first.
As former Dufus-in-Chief George W. Bush famously and humorously said: "There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again."
As former Dufus-in-Chief George W. Bush famously and humorously said: "There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again."
09-03-09, 06:03 PM
#36
The future is the Diesel? Yeah, right. I participated in the last "Dieselmania" in the late 1970s when I purchased a new, pathetic Mercedes Diesel sedan. I ain't going there again - ever. I'll walk or ride a bicycle first.
As former Dufus-in-Chief George W. Bush famously and humorously said: "There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again."
As former Dufus-in-Chief George W. Bush famously and humorously said: "There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again."
09-03-09, 06:39 PM
#37
Lexus Fanatic
40k for the Volt?????? I think the buyers are probably idiots as well. I would get a prius ,or dare I say, the ford fusion hybrid.
I am blown away that they thin they will get 40k for a car from GM that is unproven and a bit ugly
The cost of the cars still dont merit the increased price of hybrids. I am not driving any car for 10-12 years to get the full benefit. I am a petrol freak
I am blown away that they thin they will get 40k for a car from GM that is unproven and a bit ugly
The cost of the cars still dont merit the increased price of hybrids. I am not driving any car for 10-12 years to get the full benefit. I am a petrol freak
09-03-09, 06:59 PM
#39
Lexus Fanatic
So there isn't a diesel here that gets 50 MPG city/Highway. So then how is it better?
People buy hybrids again MORE than just for MPG. People continue to miss the much lower emissions they produce. They are quieter as well and some people LIKE the new technology.
I like diesels, they are great and its a shame we don't get more diesels here.
(of course, I confess to a little of this myself.....I still like the soft ride, plush seats, and noise isolation of decades-old American luxury cars)
09-03-09, 07:04 PM
#41
Mmarshall, correct me if I'm wrong, but regular diesels in passenger cars are not allowed on sale in five states?
I agree, to an extent, with the 2Gen Prius, but not the new 2010 3Gen model. Though Prius MPG has gone up with the new model, as has the sophistication of the hybrid drivetrain, general build quality and materials have clearly dropped.
There are plenty of them......the problem is that we just don't get them in America. The closest thing, right now, in the American market, is the VW Jetta TDI, and that doesn't quite give 50 MPG (officially), though it might be attainable by individual drivers.
Hybrids DO produce lower emissions than diesels, but are not necessarily any quieter (except, of course, at engine-stop-idle or in the all-electric mode). Today's diesels are amazingly quiet and refined...so much so that people don't truly realize it until they test-drive them.
I totally agree. You can blame a lot of that on the unwillingness of the American public to to open their eyes (and ears) to the latest automotive diesels. Their minds are still in the 70s and 80s.
(of course, I confess to a little of this myself.....I still like the soft ride, plush seats, and noise isolation of decades-old American luxury cars)
There are plenty of them......the problem is that we just don't get them in America. The closest thing, right now, in the American market, is the VW Jetta TDI, and that doesn't quite give 50 MPG (officially), though it might be attainable by individual drivers.
Hybrids DO produce lower emissions than diesels, but are not necessarily any quieter (except, of course, at engine-stop-idle or in the all-electric mode). Today's diesels are amazingly quiet and refined...so much so that people don't truly realize it until they test-drive them.
I totally agree. You can blame a lot of that on the unwillingness of the American public to to open their eyes (and ears) to the latest automotive diesels. Their minds are still in the 70s and 80s.
(of course, I confess to a little of this myself.....I still like the soft ride, plush seats, and noise isolation of decades-old American luxury cars)
09-03-09, 07:13 PM
#42
Lexus Fanatic
Older-generation diesels were off-limits in CA and a few Northeastern states, even though their CO and NOX emissions were low, because of their high solid-particle emissions (in other words, black soot). That solid-particle-emission problem has been cleared up with the latest Bluetec/TDI/Common-rail diesels, low-sulfur diesel fuel, and urea-injections, and, I believe, they are now on sale in all 50 states.
09-03-09, 08:42 PM
#43
Lexus Fanatic
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The cost of the cars still dont merit the increased price of hybrids. I am not driving any car for 10-12 years to get the full benefit. I am a petrol freak
09-03-09, 08:56 PM
#44
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Audi president probably went about saying it the wrong way, but I think he's pretty spot on about the Volt.
You can get a fully loaded Gen 3 Prius V for LESS than you can get a Volt even AFTER the supposed $7,500 tax credit. GM is crazy if they think the average person is going to spend over $32k for a car like this. This isn't even considering the fact there's competing electric cars in development by other companies that will cost less.
The Volt, even with its lofty fuel economy expectations, is just priced out of the range of the average car buyer, and this is going to bite GM in the ***.
You can get a fully loaded Gen 3 Prius V for LESS than you can get a Volt even AFTER the supposed $7,500 tax credit. GM is crazy if they think the average person is going to spend over $32k for a car like this. This isn't even considering the fact there's competing electric cars in development by other companies that will cost less.
The Volt, even with its lofty fuel economy expectations, is just priced out of the range of the average car buyer, and this is going to bite GM in the ***.
09-03-09, 09:22 PM
#45
Lexus Champion
Our ML Bluetec gets a full 5 miles per gallon better mileage than our previous RX 330. Not knocking the RX...we loved ours...but the engine is much stronger in the ML and 5 mpg isn't marginal. Top it off with premium diesel being an average of 25 cents per liter (a whopping $1 per gallon) than premium petrol and it is not even close.
Too many dated perceptions of what new clean diesels are all about.