IS-SV

IMHO, the decision to delay so that they can get it right is a good decision.

LexBob2

I agree. It might inconvenience some potential buyers initially, but it's better than a lot of lingering bad publicity out of the box on the new model.

mmarshall

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on how it turns out. You might (?) consider this to be before the modern era, but, because of the quality disasters that the previous X-Body compacts, J-Body subcompacts, and mid-size FWD cars (Celebrity, Pontiac 6000, Cutlass Ciera, etc...) had been, GM, in 1985 (I still remember it well), held back the introduction of the all-new, FWD full-size cars (Buick LeSabre/Electra, Olds 88/98, etc...) to make sure that the quality was "right". But, they still turned out to be a mess, just like their smaller forerunners had been. (Remember, though, this was when Roger Smith was still in charge.....quality did not mean as much to him as profits).

Ford also held back the introduction of the new 2010 Taurus a few weeks to address some issues, but, based on my recent review, I couldn't find any significant quality or assembly problems with it, at least brand-new. But the problems with the new LaCrosse seem to be more involved. From what I've heard, they center on the dash lights and wiring going haywire when the front doors are opened and closed.

IS-SV

Certainly some good examples of why GM is bankrupt, because the products you mentioned were crap, with or without decent quality control.

You might be missing the point. Delays to achieve decent quality are the goal. A delay to deliver poor quality product is not the goal, certainly not the goal of any good business. To suggest that they should not delay, since they will end up executing poorly anyway is pretty hopeless and suggests the company has no future anyway. I will try to be optimistic.

mmarshall

Your optimism has some merit. Today's GM is not the GM of the 1980's. With some of the better GM products today like the Malibu, Aura, CTS, G8, Enclave, etc...,it is more like the GM of the 1960s, which, IMO, especially late in the decade, produced some of the best products in their history. I can't wait to try out the new LaCrosse, but I suspect that, like the Taurus, it will be less Granny-like, somewhat sportier and have a more aggressive chassis/tires than its predecessor. Practically every new car today does, with a couple of rare exceptions.

BTW, comparing today's GM to the 1960's, I noticed that the new LaCrosse interior, from pictures, bears a strong resembance to retro Camaro interiors.

LexFather

Government Motors. You pay for them one way or the other

IS-SV

The gift that keeps on giving. (like bleeding leeches).

AlexusAnja

Has everyone forgotten the less than steller launch of the current ES350? Didn't it have trannys that needed replacing right off the boats?

mmarshall

They also had dash creaks and rattles, but, of course, those are minor compared to transmission problems.

LexFather

Clearly the ES issue wasn't as big as people thought it was. We had the same 3 or 4 people going around yelling about it.
Was there an issue? Yes. Was it large? Nope

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

at what cost? how much more taxpayer money must be wasted to 'get GM right'? and at what cost to legitimate competitors who must compete with a company that is backed by the entire federal govt and public whether it wants to or not.

from the original quote:
business as usual used to be we ship crap. now business as usual is we don't ship anything.

i really hope GM goes under (for real, not the sham the govt did) and goes away. i wonder how much money it is STILL losing?

mmarshall

Where you been, Paul?..........haven't seen you post much lately in CAR CHAT.

GM does seem to have done a good job on several of their recent models. I would recommend a new Malibu, Aura, G8, CTS, or Enclave, for those who want to "buy American", without a second thought.


The GM vehicles that I mentioned above have broken that old pattern.

And true or not, many believe LaCrosse buisness as usual to be:



And the new LaCrosse to be:








Half of it IS gone.

Olds is long gone, Pontiac is on the way out, Saturn has been taken over by Penske, Saab and Hummer are on the auction block, and Chevy trucks are probably going to be consolidated into GMC. GM is likely going to end up a three-division corporation for cars (Chevy, Buick, Cadillac) and GMC for trucks and large SUVs.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

thanks for asking. i've posted in a few threads here this week, but have also been very busy with work. you remember that, right?

right but when does it emerge from bankruptcy? how is it surviving now? just because it has a new smaller organization doesn't mean it can make money. what happened to the retiree obligations?

mmarshall

Tell me about it. I was burned-out myself, and there were good reasons why I retired when I did. Still, it takes a lot of work to do car reviews and help people shop....that part hasn't changed.

Still, good luck with your own job.


I'm not a labor lawyer or an expert in this field, but I don't think you can just yank the carpet out from under retirees, even in bankrupcy.......that's probably one of the reasons (among many) why GM needed public money. And, to an extent (not totally), I'm on the workers' side. They got out of bed every morning and went to work (sometimes hard work) for literally decades (as I did for over 35 years, and you are still doing), and gave the company much of their lives. IMO, they are entitled to a decent retirement package and benefits, as I got, and as you should get when it's your turn. Of course, I didn't just rely on a pension alone...I made many tax-free investments to add to it.


Not to be evasive or shift the topic, but right now, I'm more concerned about the country's looming bankrupcy than just GM's.


OK....now back to the new Lacrosse.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i will get no 'retirement package and benefits' from anyone, except social security, medicare, and what i've saved, which of course the government will tax the snot out of as i take it out of a retirement fund, if it's worth anything when that time comes.

back to the lacrosse, it's good for consumers if they're trying to make sure it's very good out of the gate, but my point is since they are under no obligation to be profitable they could just wait and wait and wait when if they were properly competitive, they'd have to get it right and ship, get it wrong and ship and pay the price, or not ship it and eat the loss. i just find it grotesquely unfair for them to be able to compete using billions of taxpayer dollars.