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MotorWeek face-off: Prius, Insight, Fusion, Jetta TDI, A3 TDI & Smart

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Old 09-10-09, 06:28 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by The G Man
The Jetta TDI shows that you can have a economy car and have fun driving it too.
Exactly! These cars can be driven hard (for those who like to drive this way track or otherwise) with no worries about batteries being depleted..
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Old 09-10-09, 06:35 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by DASHOCKER
Exactly! These cars can be driven hard (for those who like to drive this way track or otherwise) with no worries about batteries being depleted..
Who drives these cars hard? If you're going to drive them hard, they stop being economy cars and become gas guzzlers. If you're intending to drive hard, get something with a proper engine so you dont have to beat on it all the time.
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Old 09-10-09, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by The G Man
The Jetta TDI shows that you can have a economy car and have fun driving it too.
If by "economy car" you mean by fuel efficiency alone, then maybe.

But the TDI is $24,000. About $10,000 MORE than what I consider an economy car to be.
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Old 09-10-09, 06:39 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Och
Who drives these cars hard? If you're going to drive them hard, they stop being economy cars and become gas guzzlers. If you're intending to drive hard, get something with a proper engine so you dont have to beat on it all the time.
He's referring to the diesels which can take more of a beating with mpg taking less of a beating in the process.
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Old 09-10-09, 06:41 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by YARIS!
He's referring to the diesels which can take more of a beating with mpg taking less of a beating in the process.
Diesels mpg will take just as much beating if you start racing them.

None of these cars were designed to be driven hard, it destroys their purpose.
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Old 09-10-09, 06:43 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Och
Who drives these cars hard? If you're going to drive them hard, they stop being economy cars and become gas guzzlers. If you're intending to drive hard, get something with a proper engine so you dont have to beat on it all the time.
Who drives these cars hard you ask? Those who don't drive like grannies, love to drive, those who like to autocross, etc.. When you want to drive like a Sunday driving, greenhead grannie to save fuel, you can.. With the diesel powered cars, you can have your cake & eat it too so to speak.
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Old 09-10-09, 06:56 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Och
Diesels mpg will take just as much beating if you start racing them.

None of these cars were designed to be driven hard, it destroys their purpose.
The Jetta is as I mentioned.. You can throw in the Audi A3 also..

Volkswagen has a long history of grassroots racing series in the US and elsewhere. For the past three decades those series mostly used various GTI models. For 2008, Volkswagen is replacing the current GTI cup with the new Jetta TDI Cup. As the name implies, the new series will use the new Jetta CleanTDI diesel sedan. For racing purposes, the 2.0L diesel will be rated at 170 hp and 300 lb-ft of torque pumping through the standard six-speed DSG gearbox. The suspension and brakes will be beefed up for track use and all the usual racing safety equipment will be included. The series will be organized by SCCA Pro Racing and up to thirty cars per race are expected.

[Source: Volkswagen]


VOLKSWAGEN TO FEATURE CLEAN DIESEL POWER IN JETTA TDI CUP RACING SERIES

LAS VEGAS – Volkswagen of America, Inc. announced today that it will bring TDI clean diesel technology to select North American race tracks starting in May 2008. The Jetta TDI Cup series will be sanctioned by the Sports Car Club of America (SCCA) Pro Racing Inc., and will appear at up to eight major racing venues in North America during 2008.

"The Jetta TDI Cup racing series will celebrate Volkswagen's diesel technology and heritage in motorsports as good, clean fun," said Stefan Jacoby, CEO, Volkswagen of America, Inc. "Not only will the young drivers gain real-life track experience in a factory-prepared race vehicle, it will allow them to develop their own mindset of today's clean diesel technology, and foster increased awareness of its advantages in this new era of environmental sensitivity."

The Jetta TDI Cup shifts gears from the previously announced GTI program, allowing Volkswagen to showcase the power and performance of its new clean diesel technology, available in the upcoming 2009 Jetta TDI sedan and SportWagen. With up to 30 Jetta TDI's competing in the hands of aspiring, young drivers, this unique motorsport offering will highlight a new, exciting platform of racing that does not currently exist – a full field of clean diesel powered vehicles.

"With the Jetta TDI Cup, Volkswagen has created an amazing platform to develop young drivers and expand their knowledge about clean and quiet diesel technology," said Robert Wildberger, president and CEO, SCCA Pro Racing, Inc. "We look forward to the series in hopes that it will attract more attention to the drivers and advantages of diesel power."

The Jetta TDI Cup racecars will be optimized for track performance and safety. To focus on the skill of the young drivers and to ensure performance parity, proper maintenance and safety standards, all vehicles will be owned and maintained by Volkswagen. The heart of the Jetta TDI Cup racing vehicle will be the all-new, high-tech 2.0-liter four-cylinder TDI clean diesel engine rated at 170 horsepower and nearly 300 ft.-lbs. of torque in racing trim. The Jetta TDI race vehicles will be outfitted with a six-speed automatic DSG® transmission, electro-mechanical power rack-and-pinion steering system, and advanced multi-link fully independent race-tuned suspension, driver airbag supplemental restraint system, and four-wheel ABS racing brakes.
Signifying Volkswagen's environmental commitment, the Jetta TDI Cup series will be certified as CarbonFree by Carbonfund.org
.
http://green.autoblog.com/2007/10/31...ar-you-in-200/

You can find more info all over the internet[s].
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Old 09-10-09, 06:59 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by DASHOCKER
Who drives these cars hard you ask? Those who don't drive like grannies, love to drive, those who like to autocross, etc.. When you want to drive like a Sunday driving, greenhead grannie to save fuel, you can.. With the diesel powered cars, you can have your cake & eat it too so to speak.
No you cant, thats a myth. You start driving any car hard and it will guzzle more fuel. It doesnt matter whether the car is a diesel, hybird, a small petrol engine or a big V8. But the problem is, when you have an underpowered car, you will have to push it hard all the time, as opposed to a big V8 where you dont have to push it nearly as hard to go just as fast. And the big V8 will get better fuel economy.
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Old 09-10-09, 07:01 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by DASHOCKER
The Jetta is as I mentioned.. You can throw in the Audi A3 also..

http://green.autoblog.com/2007/10/31...ar-you-in-200/

You can find more info all over the internet[s].
Why are you bringing racing versions of these economy cars into this discussion? The racing versions of these cars were not designed for fuel economy and vice versa.
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Old 09-10-09, 07:02 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Och
Diesels mpg will take just as much beating if you start racing them.

None of these cars were designed to be driven hard, it destroys their purpose.
Instead of hyper miling and watching that MPG gauge all the time, some people actually like to drive normal and have some fun once a while. One other thing I like to point out is that diesel engines are heavy duty by nature and will take much more of a beating, unlike those lawn mower engines they put into the hybrids that is design for high mileage
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Old 09-10-09, 07:08 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by The G Man
Instead of hyper miling and watching that MPG gauge all the time, some people actually like to drive normal and have some fun once a while.



Originally Posted by The G Man
One other thing I like to point out is that diesel engines are heavy duty by nature and will take much more of a beating, unlike those lawn mower engines they put into the hybrids
Diesel engines aren't heavy duty by nature. The old, traditional diesel engines were heavy duty because they were mostly made for trucks, they were simple and rugged, and had very low power output and very low redline. New diesels are packed with technology, turbo chargers, complicated emissions control system, high pressure lines and so on. Plus the new low sulfur diesel fuel does not have the lubricants old diesel fuel used to have. Do not expect them to be as reliable and long lasting as NA petrol engines.
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Old 09-10-09, 07:10 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Och
Why are you bringing racing versions of these economy cars into this discussion? The racing versions of these cars were not designed for fuel economy and vice versa.
The powertrain on the TDI cars are actually stock..
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Old 09-10-09, 07:12 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by DASHOCKER
The powertrain on the TDI cars are actually stock..

Originally Posted by DASHOCKER
The heart of the Jetta TDI Cup racing vehicle will be the all-new, high-tech 2.0-liter four-cylinder TDI clean diesel engine rated at 170 horsepower and nearly 300 ft.-lbs. of torque in racing trim. The Jetta TDI race vehicles will be outfitted with a six-speed automatic DSG® transmission, electro-mechanical power rack-and-pinion steering system, and advanced multi-link fully independent race-tuned suspension, driver airbag supplemental restraint system, and four-wheel ABS racing brakes.

What part is stock?
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Old 09-10-09, 07:15 AM
  #44  
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A clean diesel driving event post is long overdue to open up some minds.. Soon
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Old 09-10-09, 07:16 AM
  #45  
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Bottom line is Prius = boring but excellent mileage and Jetta TDI = good mileage and fun to drive. I think the Jetta have a better compromised design.
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