Once again, I walk from International Autos, Milwaukee for LAST TIME!!
09-12-09, 07:47 AM
#1
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Once again, I walk from International Autos, Milwaukee for LAST TIME!!
So as many know, I got shafted on an S5 purchase back in February.. so I've been hunting and finally drove in yesterday to test drive an M3 at International... it was a little too "pre-owned" for me, so I'm looking to lease a 3-series, one of my other top choices...
I told my guy specifically that I can keep my current car as is or lower my payments if I trade, and he goes to his manager (just like the S5, only BMW manager this time). Guy comes back with an astronomical payment. I laugh and say, "This isn't even in the ballpark."
Couple hours pass, my guy calls... "___ "miscalculated" your payment, it's now ___", which is my current payment. Again, lease rates considered, he's about $80/month higher than what we calculated based on current BMW NA lease rates and we included options and up-front money. I was in shock after giving these guys a second chance, a complete waste of time.
As you guys know, I do my homework so I went knowing the cars, payments, residuals, etc. Intl Auto has become notorious for SMs jacking pricing after getting to the final negotiations. This time though, I can't figure if it's my sales guy or the manager as he wanted me to commit to my trade amount FIVE times (and low-balled) before he said he'd try to get a lower price. Told him, "This is my 20th car, stop the rookie stuff".
I will not be setting foot there again, and will be sitting tight until spring time now. Disappointing, but my money, my choice... my patience grows...
I told my guy specifically that I can keep my current car as is or lower my payments if I trade, and he goes to his manager (just like the S5, only BMW manager this time). Guy comes back with an astronomical payment. I laugh and say, "This isn't even in the ballpark."
Couple hours pass, my guy calls... "___ "miscalculated" your payment, it's now ___", which is my current payment. Again, lease rates considered, he's about $80/month higher than what we calculated based on current BMW NA lease rates and we included options and up-front money. I was in shock after giving these guys a second chance, a complete waste of time.
As you guys know, I do my homework so I went knowing the cars, payments, residuals, etc. Intl Auto has become notorious for SMs jacking pricing after getting to the final negotiations. This time though, I can't figure if it's my sales guy or the manager as he wanted me to commit to my trade amount FIVE times (and low-balled) before he said he'd try to get a lower price. Told him, "This is my 20th car, stop the rookie stuff".
I will not be setting foot there again, and will be sitting tight until spring time now. Disappointing, but my money, my choice... my patience grows...
09-12-09, 08:12 AM
#2
Lexus Fanatic
I don't know why auto dealerships even bother to even hire regular salespeople if every deal has to be approved and signed off by the service manager like a nanny. Seems to me like a waste of time. If dealerships are going to operate like that, then just let the managers make the deals and do the paperwork themselves. And, even when all that is done, you still march into the buisness office for another big round of paper-signing from the Buisness Manager....and, usually, solicitations for additional aftermarket, dealer-backed stuff.
Saturn and Scion, IMO, really started something good with their policy of selling list-price only.......but even they have the 2-stage regular salespeople and sales managers. However, to their credit, they priced their cars reasonably and competitively to start with, and did away with endless haggling and negotiating, making the auto-buying process a much simpler, more pleasant process. While it does away with some discountes/rebates, it also prevents dealer price-gouging on models where demand exceed supply. IMO, the whole industry should adopt this policy. You would have a lot more satisfied customers.
Saturn and Scion, IMO, really started something good with their policy of selling list-price only.......but even they have the 2-stage regular salespeople and sales managers. However, to their credit, they priced their cars reasonably and competitively to start with, and did away with endless haggling and negotiating, making the auto-buying process a much simpler, more pleasant process. While it does away with some discountes/rebates, it also prevents dealer price-gouging on models where demand exceed supply. IMO, the whole industry should adopt this policy. You would have a lot more satisfied customers.
Last edited by mmarshall; 09-12-09 at 08:17 AM.
09-12-09, 09:24 AM
#4
Pole Position
I know I promised I wouldn't post until she was in the garage, but got my pricing today, the new Z was still too high ($77K OTD) and the Shelby still met my original criteria:
Reliable, mileage, back seats, daily driver, under $60K... and FUN!!! I went to $107K (Porsche C4S), still couldn't do it
Reliable, mileage, back seats, daily driver, under $60K... and FUN!!! I went to $107K (Porsche C4S), still couldn't do it
09-12-09, 10:22 AM
#6
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
but about your dealings, if you EXPECT them to offer up numbers as good as you've calculated if you haven't shared your calcs with them, you're DELUDED.
quick story. i was once buying a car and had already done a bunch of calcs and knew what i would offer them. the sales guy started his pitch and usual lame questions and went off to his manager and came back with a laughable quote. i said, "well, we already did some calcs on what we believe you pay for the car, and here it is" and i put down a print out of a spreadsheet with a calculation a few thousand less than his quote. the old sales guy said, "let me see what the manager says"
and he came back and said "well you kids have obviously done your homework" (i was much younger then ) and i think he wanted $100 more or something for some probably lame reason but we said fine, deal was done in 30 minutes, drove home.
09-12-09, 10:56 AM
#7
Lexus Fanatic
quick story. i was once buying a car and had already done a bunch of calcs and knew what i would offer them. the sales guy started his pitch and usual lame questions and went off to his manager and came back with a laughable quote.
i said, "well, we already did some calcs on what we believe you pay for the car, and here it is" and i put down a print out of a spreadsheet with a calculation a few thousand less than his quote. the old sales guy said, "let me see what the manager says" and he came back and said "well you kids have obviously done your homework" (i was much younger then ) and i think he wanted $100 more or something for some probably lame reason but we said fine, deal was done in 30 minutes, drove home.
i said, "well, we already did some calcs on what we believe you pay for the car, and here it is" and i put down a print out of a spreadsheet with a calculation a few thousand less than his quote. the old sales guy said, "let me see what the manager says"
and he came back and said "well you kids have obviously done your homework" (i was much younger then ) and i think he wanted $100 more or something for some probably lame reason but we said fine, deal was done in 30 minutes, drove home.
...especially in your case. But that doesn't always work for everybody, for three main reasons. First, it is not always possible to determine what the dealer paid for it, though you can usually do some quick estimations. The best way to deterimine cost is on a special-order car where you know, in advance, exactly what you will be getting, because cars sitting on the lot, if you just pick one out and start bargaining on it, may not give you enough time to check out all the dealer-cost data on Consumer Reports or Edmunds, which, BTW, often differs between the base car itself and options. Second, the official dealer "invoice", due to a number of factors like holdback fees, end-of-month incentives, etc.... that the factory gives to dealerships (not necessarily consumers) to move cars by a certain date, may not be listed on the invoice. Third, if you find the car you want, sitting on the lot, then go home, to the bank, library, etc....to do your "homework", the car may not be still sitting there on the dealer lot when you get back, if it has been sold in the meantime.And, on a different note, what you went through with that salesperson, once again illustrates what I said above....why hire salespeople at all if they are just going to run back and forth between the desk where you are negotiating and the sales' manager's office?
Either give the sregular salespeople authority to make and sign deals on behalf of the dealership, or have the managers do the work themselves. The present two-tier system on every deal, IMO, is ridiculous.
Last edited by mmarshall; 09-12-09 at 11:03 AM.
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09-12-09, 11:28 AM
#8
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... if you SERIOUSLY thought all those posts you listed from me were all for real...
though I'm flattered you spent all that time recalling them 
what happened to the mustang shelby gt500!?
but about your dealings, if you EXPECT them to offer up numbers as good as you've calculated if you haven't shared your calcs with them, you're DELUDED.
quick story. i was once buying a car and had already done a bunch of calcs and knew what i would offer them. the sales guy started his pitch and usual lame questions and went off to his manager and came back with a laughable quote. i said, "well, we already did some calcs on what we believe you pay for the car, and here it is" and i put down a print out of a spreadsheet with a calculation a few thousand less than his quote. the old sales guy said, "let me see what the manager says" and he came back and said "well you kids have obviously done your homework" (i was much younger then ) and i think he wanted $100 more or something for some probably lame reason but we said fine, deal was done in 30 minutes, drove home.
but about your dealings, if you EXPECT them to offer up numbers as good as you've calculated if you haven't shared your calcs with them, you're DELUDED.
quick story. i was once buying a car and had already done a bunch of calcs and knew what i would offer them. the sales guy started his pitch and usual lame questions and went off to his manager and came back with a laughable quote. i said, "well, we already did some calcs on what we believe you pay for the car, and here it is" and i put down a print out of a spreadsheet with a calculation a few thousand less than his quote. the old sales guy said, "let me see what the manager says"
and he came back and said "well you kids have obviously done your homework" (i was much younger then ) and i think he wanted $100 more or something for some probably lame reason but we said fine, deal was done in 30 minutes, drove home.Just wanted to share, and I will get WHAT I WANT FOR WHAT I WANT TO PAY... who wouldn't???
09-12-09, 01:09 PM
#10
Lexus Champion
I don't know why auto dealerships even bother to even hire regular salespeople if every deal has to be approved and signed off by the service manager like a nanny. Seems to me like a waste of time. If dealerships are going to operate like that, then just let the managers make the deals and do the paperwork themselves. And, even when all that is done, you still march into the buisness office for another big round of paper-signing from the Buisness Manager....and, usually, solicitations for additional aftermarket, dealer-backed stuff.
The finance managers do as you described. Reynolds(the dealership's CRM system) does all the dirty work - Desking is the program they use to pull out raw data from a Reynold's ERA/Unix server as well as data from the credit bureaus and it calculates payments as well as predict how much the dealership is going to make.
j/k
09-12-09, 07:56 PM
#14
Lexus Fanatic
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at this rate you might be retired before you get it though.
i think you need to separate the sales process from the car. find the car you REALLY want - it seems you still haven't done that. then, buy the car, even if the sales process is awful, as most times it is.
obviously if you want a car that's new on the market or in very short supply, or usually both, you're NOT going to get much of a deal. get over it, get the car, and live a little.
i think you need to separate the sales process from the car. find the car you REALLY want - it seems you still haven't done that. then, buy the car, even if the sales process is awful, as most times it is.
obviously if you want a car that's new on the market or in very short supply, or usually both, you're NOT going to get much of a deal. get over it, get the car, and live a little.