Car Chat General discussion about Lexus, other auto manufacturers and automotive news.

Lexus vs. rival service intervals?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 09-14-09, 06:11 PM
  #1  
encore888
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
 
encore888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: CA
Posts: 8,695
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
Question Lexus vs. rival service intervals?

Does anyone know why Lexus recommends service every 5,000 miles, while rivals such as Mercedes-Benz/BMW do so every 10,000 miles? I was reading a review of the GS 430, and Automobile Magazine asked the same thing.

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...430/index.html

Six-Month Update True to the Lexus brand's reputation for high customer-satisfaction ratings and excellent reliability, our GS430 has been trouble free since its arrival last summer, with only Lexus-recommended service visits every 5000 miles. (We wonder about the short service intervals, however, given that both Mercedes-Benz and BMW call for 10,000 miles or more between service visits.)
Another article says they did so in response to competition:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...0/ai_65352781/

Mercedes-Benz and BMW counterattacked [Lexus] with mid-sized V-8s, longer maintenance intervals, new dealerships and improved customer service
This article says that different brands have used software to sense oil changes:

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...&rssfeed=rss06
encore888 is offline  
Old 09-14-09, 08:53 PM
  #2  
pagemaster
Lexus Champion
 
pagemaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MIchigan
Posts: 2,025
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I think MB and BMW run most of their vehicles on synthetics...

Lexus/Toyota are serviced at 7500 mile intervals in other parts of the world.
pagemaster is offline  
Old 09-14-09, 09:10 PM
  #3  
rominl
exclusive matchup

iTrader: (4)
 
rominl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Lovely OC
Posts: 81,672
Received 190 Likes on 148 Posts
Default

yup, that's one thing i wish is the case for lexus as well. at 10k interval it's definitely an incentive. now of course, i am not sure on cars that i would own, but on lease cars, perfect idea
rominl is offline  
Old 09-15-09, 01:34 AM
  #4  
Big Andy
Pole Position
 
Big Andy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 2,798
Received 7 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by pagemaster
I think MB and BMW run most of their vehicles on synthetics...

Lexus/Toyota are serviced at 7500 mile intervals in other parts of the world.
10k intervals in this part of the world. I'm just about to book my third (30k) service. Thankfully it's the cheaper intermediate service.
Big Andy is offline  
Old 09-15-09, 02:26 AM
  #5  
KILLERGS4
Lexus Champion
 
KILLERGS4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,159
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

i prefer the service interval of the German carmakers... it's 10k-13k or 1 yr I believe. with lexus 5k service, just too many visit to the dealer.
KILLERGS4 is offline  
Old 09-15-09, 04:18 AM
  #6  
AlexusAnja
Lead Lap
 
AlexusAnja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: NY/NJ
Posts: 4,178
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
Default

It's called free maintenance versus paid maintenance. BMW and MB offering free maintenance, of course they'll want to offer a longer interval for maintenance. Lexus you pay, so they want to have you back as soon as possible.

Rule of thumb, just go with conventional wisdom of 5K for oil/filter, 10K for other filters and you're good.
AlexusAnja is offline  
Old 09-15-09, 05:14 AM
  #7  
The G Man
Lexus Test Driver
 
The G Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: MA
Posts: 8,698
Received 68 Likes on 56 Posts
Default

Audi is 10K maintenance as well and there is no free maintenance. I think the main reason is the oil sludge problem they have in the pass. A 5000 mile oil change will prevent that problem. Even the new RX which use synthetic I believe is still sticking with the 5000 miles interval. 5000 mile maintenance is good for reliability and good for the dealers, just not good for the customers.
The G Man is offline  
Old 09-15-09, 05:15 AM
  #8  
UpSideDown
Lead Lap
 
UpSideDown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SE
Posts: 608
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by Big Andy
10k intervals in this part of the world. I'm just about to book my third (30k) service. Thankfully it's the cheaper intermediate service.
Same in Sweden. First service at 15000km. About $500 for a visual inspection plus oil & filter change...

Last edited by UpSideDown; 09-16-09 at 01:51 AM.
UpSideDown is offline  
Old 09-15-09, 06:33 AM
  #9  
DASHOCKER
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
 
DASHOCKER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 12,191
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes on 10 Posts
Default

It has much to do with the motor oil.. The typical Mobil 1, Castrol Syntec/Edge oils are made from base stock & not 100% synthetic.. These oils will not withstand high temps & demands @10k & beyond like that of 100% synthetics oils like the German castrol, Amsoil, etc & must be changed sooner...

Standards

[edit] American Petroleum Institute
The American Petroleum Institute (API) sets minimum for performance standards for lubricants. Motor oil is used for the lubrication, cooling, and cleaning of internal combustion engines. Motor oil may be composed of a lubricant base stock only in the case of non-detergent oil, or a lubricant base stock plus additives to improve the oil's detergency, extreme pressure performance, and ability to inhibit corrosion of engine parts. Lubricant base stocks are categorized into five groups by the API. Group I base stocks are composed of fractionally distilled petroleum which is further refined with solvent extraction processes to improve certain properties such as oxidation resistance and to remove wax. Group II base stocks are composed of fractionally distilled petroleum that has been hydrocracked to further refine and purify it. Group III base stocks have similar characteristics to Group II base stocks, except that Group III base stocks have higher viscosity indexes. Group III base stocks are produced by further hydrocracking of Group II base stocks, or of hydroisomerized slack wax, (a byproduct of the dewaxing process). Group IV base stock are polyalphaolefins (PAOs). Group V is a catch-all group for any base stock not described by Groups I to IV. Examples of group V base stocks include polyol esters, polyalkylene glycols (PAG oils), and perfluoropolyalkylethers (PFPAEs). Groups I and II are commonly referred to as mineral oils, group III is typically referred to as synthetic (except in Germany and Japan, where they must not be called synthetic) and group IV is a synthetic oil. Group V base oils are so diverse that there is no catch-all description.


[edit] API service classes
The API service classes[8] have two general classifications: S for "service" (originating from spark ignition) (typical passenger cars and light trucks using gasoline engines), and C for "commercial" (originating from compression ignition) (typical diesel equipment). Engine oil which has been tested and meets the API standards may display the API Service Symbol (also known as the "Donut") with the service designation on containers sold to oil users.[8]

Note that the API oil classification structure has eliminated specific support for wet-clutch motorcycle applications in their descriptors, and API SJ and newer oils are referred to be specific to automobile and light truck use. Accordingly, motorcycle oils are subject to their own unique standards.

The latest API service standard designation is SM for gasoline automobile and light-truck engines. The SM standard refers to a group of laboratory and engine tests, including the latest series for control of high-temperature deposits. Current API service categories include SM, SL and SJ for gasoline engines. All previous service designations are obsolete, although motorcycle oils commonly still use the SF/SG standard.

All the current gasoline categories (including the obsolete SH), have placed limitations on the phosphorus content for certain SAE viscosity grades (the xW-20, xW-30) due to the chemical poisoning that phosphorus has on catalytic converters. Phosphorus is a key anti-wear component in motor oil and is usually found in motor oil in the form of Zinc_dithiophosphate. Each new API category has placed successively lower phosphorus limits, and this has created a controversial issue of backwards compatibility with much older engines, especially engines with sliding tappets. API, and ILSAC, which represents most of the worlds major automobile/engine manufactures, states API SM/ILSAC GF-4 is fully backwards compatible, and it is noted that one of the engine tests required for API SM, the Sequence IVA, is a sliding tappet design to test specifically for cam wear protection. However, not everyone is in agreement with backwards compatibility, and in addition, there are special situations, such as "modified" engines or fully race built engines, where the engine protection requirements are above and beyond API/ILSAC requirements. Because of this, there are specialty oils out in the market place with higher than API allowed phosphorus levels.

There are six diesel engine service designations which are current: CJ-4, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF-2, and CF. All others are obsolete. In addition, API created a separated CI-4 PLUS designation in conjunction with CJ-4 and CI-4 for oils that meet certain extra requirements, and this marking is located in the lower portion of the API Service Symbol "Donut".

It is possible for an oil to conform to both the gasoline and diesel standards. In fact, it is the norm for all diesel rated engine oils to carry the "corresponding" gasoline specification. For example, API CJ-4 will almost always list either SL or SM, API CI-4 with SL, API CH-4 with SJ ... etc.


[edit] ILSAC
The International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee (ILSAC) also has standards for motor oil. Their latest standard, GF-4[9] was approved in 2004, and applies to SAE 0W-20, 5W-20, 0W-30, 5W-30, and 10W-30 viscosity grade oils. In general, ILSAC works with API in creating the newest gasoline oil specification, with ILSAC adding an extra requirement of fuel economy testing to their specification. For GF-4, a Sequence VIB Fuel Economy Test (ASTM D6837) is required that is not required in API service category SM.

A key new test for GF-4, which is also required for API SM, is the Sequence IIIG, which involves running a 3.8 L (232 in³), GM 3.8 L V-6 at 125 hp (93 kW), 3,600 rpm, and 150 °C (300 °F) oil temperature for 100 hours. These are much more severe conditions than any API-specified oil was designed for: cars which typically push their oil temperature consistently above 100 °C (212 °F) are most turbocharged engines, along with most engines of European or Japanese origin, particularly small capacity, high power output.

The IIIG test is about 50% more difficult[10] than the previous IIIF test, used in GF-3 and API SL oils. Engine oils bearing the API starburst symbol since 2005 are ILSAC GF-4 compliant.[11]
More info online

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil


I don't exceed 10k per year on my cars because I have more than one.. I change the oil on my cars once a year..

Last edited by DASHOCKER; 09-15-09 at 06:36 AM.
DASHOCKER is offline  
Old 09-15-09, 06:39 AM
  #10  
LexFather
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Originally Posted by The G Man
Audi is 10K maintenance as well and there is no free maintenance. I think the main reason is the oil sludge problem they have in the pass. A 5000 mile oil change will prevent that problem. Even the new RX which use synthetic I believe is still sticking with the 5000 miles interval. 5000 mile maintenance is good for reliability and good for the dealers, just not good for the customers.
That was only with one engine and it was clear owners were part of the problem, not changing their oils.

5k is also the "recommended" service, its not something to be done every time if you don't want it to. Newer models now have a lot of fluids that don't need replacing or need replacing after 100k miles or so..
 
Old 09-15-09, 07:19 AM
  #11  
The G Man
Lexus Test Driver
 
The G Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: MA
Posts: 8,698
Received 68 Likes on 56 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by DASHOCKER
It has much to do with the motor oil.. The typical Mobil 1, Castrol Syntec/Edge oils are made from base stock & not 100% synthetic.. These oils will not withstand high temps & demands @10k & beyond like that of 100% synthetics oils like the German castrol, Amsoil, etc & must be changed sooner...
The recommanded oil change interval for Audi is 12 months or 12000 miles even for Mobil 1 and Castro Sythec, non euro type. As long as the oil meets VW 502.00 standrads.
The G Man is offline  
Old 09-15-09, 10:13 AM
  #12  
rominl
exclusive matchup

iTrader: (4)
 
rominl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Lovely OC
Posts: 81,672
Received 190 Likes on 148 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by AlexusAnja
It's called free maintenance versus paid maintenance. BMW and MB offering free maintenance, of course they'll want to offer a longer interval for maintenance. Lexus you pay, so they want to have you back as soon as possible.

Rule of thumb, just go with conventional wisdom of 5K for oil/filter, 10K for other filters and you're good.
mb dropped their free maintenance quite a while ago already and their intervals are still around 10k i believe
rominl is offline  
Old 09-15-09, 10:18 AM
  #13  
IS-SV
Lexus Fanatic
 
IS-SV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: tech capital
Posts: 14,100
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Mercedes (gasoline car) intervals were 13K trhough model year 2008, changed to 10K miles recently, always w/synthetic oil.

Last Jag I had, intervals were 10K miles on regular oil, free maintenance included during warranty period.

I do my Lexus oil changes (regular oil) at 6-7K miles, dealer is ok with that interval.
IS-SV is offline  
Old 09-15-09, 11:41 AM
  #14  
<VENOM>
Lexus Champion
 
<VENOM>'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: NYC/ATL
Posts: 2,618
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Looks like 10k intervals for Toyota/Lexus is not to far away, would also be interesting to see if they add a quart or 2 of oil the engine when they increase the interval

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?t=54840
<VENOM> is offline  
Old 09-15-09, 11:50 AM
  #15  
The G Man
Lexus Test Driver
 
The G Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: MA
Posts: 8,698
Received 68 Likes on 56 Posts
Default

The old 4runner's engine has a pretty big oil capacity already, Toyota needs to increase the size of the oil filter.
The G Man is offline  


Quick Reply: Lexus vs. rival service intervals?



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:30 AM.