New BMW M5 F10 (updated, official spec and link in #205)
02-16-11, 07:42 PM
#151
If Hamann can do this to a regular F10 5-Series, I was hoping that the M division could come up with something at least in this ballpark. The wheels look terrible on the prototype and it looks bland imo.
While the Panamera is polarizing as far as it's exterior looks go, it is much more aggressive than this M5 right out of the box (4S or TT).
While the Panamera is polarizing as far as it's exterior looks go, it is much more aggressive than this M5 right out of the box (4S or TT).
02-16-11, 07:59 PM
#152
Lexus Champion
So they changed the skirts, diffuser, front lip, spoiler, wheels (BMW OEM wheels are typically bad)....
Please show me any stock F10 5-series with the M-sport pack that looks anywhere near as aggressive.
Last edited by CDNROCKIES; 02-16-11 at 08:30 PM.
02-16-11, 08:13 PM
#153
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The design should reflect the power and performance of the car IMHO.
Older M5 models had a lot less power and performance than the E60 M5 and the F10 M5 will have.
If the rumors are true and the F10 M5 will have close to 600 HP, I feel that should be reflected in its design, or at least for it to be differentiated enough from a regular 5.
Yes BMW is going back to more understated styling, but I'm not sure that's a good thing.
I think the Panamera could start stealing a lot of M5 sales.
Older M5 models had a lot less power and performance than the E60 M5 and the F10 M5 will have.
If the rumors are true and the F10 M5 will have close to 600 HP, I feel that should be reflected in its design, or at least for it to be differentiated enough from a regular 5.
Yes BMW is going back to more understated styling, but I'm not sure that's a good thing.
I think the Panamera could start stealing a lot of M5 sales.
02-16-11, 08:44 PM
#154
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Add in the horrible shape of the headlamps (whatever happened to the clean, but aggressive headlights shape of BMWs of yore?) and what is commonly referred to as the "pig snout" (tho, it's not nearly as bad here as on other BMW models) and there isn't much to work w/.
The upcoming 6 Series 4-door coupe (Gran Coupe concept) is much more aggressive looking but even that has the same problem in the front fascia.
02-16-11, 10:53 PM
#156
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I understand why they made the regular 5 more bland and understated. However, I don't see why the M5 version should look so similar to a regular 5, other than historically what was done before.
02-16-11, 11:22 PM
#157
Lexus Champion
Why can't a manufacturer incorporate the more aggressive spoilers, skirts, diffusers, wheels, etc. and not end up looking like a tuner car??? Multiple car makers make their performance lines signicantly more aggressive than their regular offerings. Why should the M5 be so sedate?
These cars are stock manufacturer offerings that are more aggressive than their mainstream models. (Pana has upgraded wheels) Every one of these looks far more aggressive than the F10 M5 prototype.
02-17-11, 02:07 AM
#158
Lexus Test Driver
Being lucky enough to see these kinds of cars everyday on the local roads, the majority of the customer base for these supersedans and high-performance luxury vehicles are not exactly fervent motoring enthusiasts.
They're notably older, notably better dressed, and a surprising proportion of them women.
Do they want a fast car? Clearly yes.
Do they want a fast car that screams LOOK AT ME I'M FAST? Probably not.
Yes, enthusiasts want more aggressive designs, more aggressive suspension, etc. etc. but the fact of the matter is, a large portion of the actual customer base doesn't actually want that.
I recall Henry (rominl) mentioning how at a Lexus focus group during talks of the exhaust system for an SC, a lady quipped "Why would you want to hear the exhaust?"
I feel like these days luxury is taking a step back in terms of exorbitant displays of money--both the Germans and the Japanese are releasing restrained designs, throwback styling cues. While the polarizing looks of the previous 5 and 7-Series cars gained a lot of sales for BMW, it did affect customer loyalty a bit--and I feel like BMW is addressing that.
You could argue all you want about the upcoming M5 not being aggressive enough, but in their current lineup, I don't think it'll fit in that well.
As a case in point, Top Gear read an outline of an Audi A8 customer--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ufckiwl0P4
From what I've personally seen on the streets, the people buying these cars aren't in it for the go-fast looks. I'm not even quite sure if they're in it for the performance--it's more like "Because I can."
They're notably older, notably better dressed, and a surprising proportion of them women.
Do they want a fast car? Clearly yes.
Do they want a fast car that screams LOOK AT ME I'M FAST? Probably not.
Yes, enthusiasts want more aggressive designs, more aggressive suspension, etc. etc. but the fact of the matter is, a large portion of the actual customer base doesn't actually want that.
I recall Henry (rominl) mentioning how at a Lexus focus group during talks of the exhaust system for an SC, a lady quipped "Why would you want to hear the exhaust?"
I feel like these days luxury is taking a step back in terms of exorbitant displays of money--both the Germans and the Japanese are releasing restrained designs, throwback styling cues. While the polarizing looks of the previous 5 and 7-Series cars gained a lot of sales for BMW, it did affect customer loyalty a bit--and I feel like BMW is addressing that.
You could argue all you want about the upcoming M5 not being aggressive enough, but in their current lineup, I don't think it'll fit in that well.
As a case in point, Top Gear read an outline of an Audi A8 customer--
He's highly affluent, with an average income of $500,000 a year. He is 58 years old, highly educated, etc. etc.
From what I've personally seen on the streets, the people buying these cars aren't in it for the go-fast looks. I'm not even quite sure if they're in it for the performance--it's more like "Because I can."
02-17-11, 02:26 AM
#159
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I think there is a big difference between an SC or A8 buyer and an M5 buyer. Any time I see an M5 on the road, it is almost always speeding, going fast, or swerving through traffic. Rarely do I see old or slow drivers behind the wheel of an M5.
Most conservative buyers wouldn't even dare drive an M5 anyways. Many of the older affluent buyers would instead just buy a V8 5 Series.
The buyer group for M cars is quite niche and specific. From the looks of things, it might even look more conservative than the E92 M3! It wouldn't make sense to have the M5 look more conservative than the M3, now would it?
Of course, we can't make final judgments until we see the production version.
02-17-11, 06:28 AM
#160
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A twin turbo, automatic M5 sounds like something Hammon or Alipina would make, NOT a BMW. I wonder how Alipina feels about them using F/I since that is a huge part of Alpina. BMW boasted "oh NA is better, purer so we are better" and they clearly have eaten their words.
They boasted how "oh M SUVs don't fit the M marque" and we have a X5 M and X6M.
Don't get me wrong, they are all awesome in their own way but BMW to me used to really be "different" but now they are just like everyone else.
This will really be the case if no manual is offered.
They boasted how "oh M SUVs don't fit the M marque" and we have a X5 M and X6M.
Don't get me wrong, they are all awesome in their own way but BMW to me used to really be "different" but now they are just like everyone else.
This will really be the case if no manual is offered.
02-17-11, 08:30 AM
#161
I think there is a big difference between an SC or A8 buyer and an M5 buyer. Any time I see an M5 on the road, it is almost always speeding, going fast, or swerving through traffic. Rarely do I see old or slow drivers behind the wheel of an M5.
Most conservative buyers wouldn't even dare drive an M5 anyways. Many of the older affluent buyers would instead just buy a V8 5 Series.
The buyer group for M cars is quite niche and specific. From the looks of things, it might even look more conservative than the E92 M3! It wouldn't make sense to have the M5 look more conservative than the M3, now would it?
Of course, we can't make final judgments until we see the production version.
and more? i went to m school. i drive ok but i won't say i am extremely good. but i would say half the school didn't really know what fast performance driving is
fortunately or unfortunately, even on cars like the m and amg, a lot of people buy the cars because of the price tag and the status (i would say amg is even worse). so in my eyes the unfortunately thing is manufacturers will a lot of times lean towards that direction -- how to sell more
can't say it's wrong though.
but if the f10 goes as far as using automatic, then man...
02-17-11, 08:32 AM
#162
Again, I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make?
Why can't a manufacturer incorporate the more aggressive spoilers, skirts, diffusers, wheels, etc. and not end up looking like a tuner car??? Multiple car makers make their performance lines signicantly more aggressive than their regular offerings. Why should the M5 be so sedate?
These cars are stock manufacturer offerings that are more aggressive than their mainstream models. (Pana has upgraded wheels) Every one of these looks far more aggressive than the F10 M5 prototype.
Why can't a manufacturer incorporate the more aggressive spoilers, skirts, diffusers, wheels, etc. and not end up looking like a tuner car??? Multiple car makers make their performance lines signicantly more aggressive than their regular offerings. Why should the M5 be so sedate?
These cars are stock manufacturer offerings that are more aggressive than their mainstream models. (Pana has upgraded wheels) Every one of these looks far more aggressive than the F10 M5 prototype.
My point is that you can't compare a stock car with a car with aftermarket wheels, spoilers, splitters, etc. The fact is that no car company is going to release a car, much less a sports saloon, looking like it came from a tuner garage.
Also I agree w everything Whoster said
Last edited by knihc2008; 02-17-11 at 08:42 AM.
02-17-11, 08:41 AM
#163
Lexus Champion
Let's agree to disagree. I don't find any of those cars aggressive looking at all except for the CLK Black... and I don't think anything gets more aggressive than that car. Also, the Panamera you pulled up has aftermarket wheels.
My point is that you can't compare a stock car with a car with aftermarket wheels, spoilers, splitters, etc. The fact is that no car company is going to release a car, much less a sports saloon, looking like it came from a tuner garage.
My point is that you can't compare a stock car with a car with aftermarket wheels, spoilers, splitters, etc. The fact is that no car company is going to release a car, much less a sports saloon, looking like it came from a tuner garage.
We definitely need to agree to disagree then. 
That was the point, manufacturers are capable of making their own models look more aggressive than their stock offerings without making them look like tuner cars. And btw, I mentioned in my post that the Pana had wheels.
02-17-11, 08:43 AM
#164
You don't think any of those cars look more aggressive than a base XKR, base Panamera or S550? We definitely need to agree to disagree then.
That was the point, manufacturers are capable of making their own models look more aggressive than their stock offerings without making them look like tuner cars. And btw, I mentioned in my post that the Pana had wheels.
We definitely need to agree to disagree then. That was the point, manufacturers are capable of making their own models look more aggressive than their stock offerings without making them look like tuner cars. And btw, I mentioned in my post that the Pana had wheels.
And I honestly can't tell the difference between a base Panamera and a Pana turbo, but that's just me
02-17-11, 05:10 PM
#165
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niche and specific in terms of wealth and money, yes. driving, not necessarily. i see plenty of m3 and m5 around day in day out. i have seen plenty of fast ones, raced plenty too. but in my eyes? majority of them actually drive pretty slow and seeing the driving position of some, i am more than sure they don't really know how to drive.
and more? i went to m school. i drive ok but i won't say i am extremely good. but i would say half the school didn't really know what fast performance driving is
fortunately or unfortunately, even on cars like the m and amg, a lot of people buy the cars because of the price tag and the status (i would say amg is even worse). so in my eyes the unfortunately thing is manufacturers will a lot of times lean towards that direction -- how to sell more
can't say it's wrong though.
but if the f10 goes as far as using automatic, then man...
and more? i went to m school. i drive ok but i won't say i am extremely good. but i would say half the school didn't really know what fast performance driving is
fortunately or unfortunately, even on cars like the m and amg, a lot of people buy the cars because of the price tag and the status (i would say amg is even worse). so in my eyes the unfortunately thing is manufacturers will a lot of times lean towards that direction -- how to sell more
can't say it's wrong though.
but if the f10 goes as far as using automatic, then man...