Buick billboard targets Lexus AND new GM ads vs Toyota/Lexus
09-18-09, 02:09 PM
#46
Guest
Posts: n/a
Wow, here is the new ad of the Buick going at the ES again. It really shows they consider the ES and not the TL the car to beat.
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/09/18/v...nd-check-em-ou
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/09/18/v...nd-check-em-ou
09-18-09, 02:46 PM
#47
Lexus Fanatic
It's a fact, and Buick is well aware of it. The challenges Buick faces in the US market go well beyond what lame journalists publish as their perceptions of the "geezer-pleasers". It's only recently that Buick introduced products that were competitive. Over the last 2 decades the Buick lineup consisted of mostly dated cars (w/pushrod engines, 4 speed trannys), low performance, ugly styling, low fuel efficiency, terrible depreciation, etc.
And, push-rod engines aren't necessarily things to make fun of, either. Corvettes and Dodge Vipers, with push-rods, can often suck the doors off of much more expensive Euro-machinery with an abundance of cams, valves, and high-tech parts.
09-18-09, 02:49 PM
#48
Lexus Fanatic
Dated powertrains and cheap plastic interiors, for years, were characteristics of several GM divisions, not just Buick. With GM, that applied across the board......with all age groups, not just older ones.
And, push-rod engines aren't necessarily things to make fun of, either. Corvettes and Dodge Vipers, with push-rods, can often suck the doors off of much more expensive Euro-machinery with an abundance of cams, valves, and high-tech parts.
And, push-rod engines aren't necessarily things to make fun of, either. Corvettes and Dodge Vipers, with push-rods, can often suck the doors off of much more expensive Euro-machinery with an abundance of cams, valves, and high-tech parts.
09-18-09, 02:50 PM
#49
Lexus Fanatic
Well, I don't think there's much arguement that it's already got the new TL's ugly styling beat. Mechanically, though, that may be another story.....Honda/Acura, in spite of a string of bad transmissions a number of years ago, builds some of the highest-quality vehicles in the industry.
09-18-09, 02:54 PM
#51
Lexus Fanatic
Yes, for people who think along the lines of you (and me, to a lesser extent), that is true...they avoided GM like the plague. But, for those who did buy GM products (especially those repeat owners), mechanical sophistication meant little. I know people who have stuck with Chevies, for example, through thick and thin....since the glory days of Chevy back in the 60's.
09-18-09, 02:59 PM
#52
Lexus Fanatic
Yes, for people who think along the lines of you (and me, to a lesser extent), that is true...they avoided GM like the plague. But, for those who did buy GM products (especially those repeat owners), mechanical sophistication meant little. I know people who have stuck with Chevies, for example, through thick and thin....since the glory days of Chevy back in the 60's.
Depending on customer loyalty is a bad business approach in 2009.Like Iacocca said about the Chysler Imperial in it's last days, something like you can't keep marketing a car to those that will be dead soon enough.
09-18-09, 03:01 PM
#53
Lexus Champion
It's a fact, and Buick is well aware of it. The challenges Buick faces in the US market go well beyond what lame journalists publish as their perceptions of the "geezer-pleasers". It's only recently that Buick introduced products that were competitive. Over the last 2 decades the Buick lineup consisted of mostly dated cars (w/pushrod engines, 4 speed trannys), low performance, ugly styling, low fuel efficiency, terrible depreciation, etc.
I'm sure that it's the #1 topic of discussion when they look at their demographics. Lexus looks at the same thing with the LS and ES.
09-18-09, 03:01 PM
#54
Lexus Fanatic
The ES sells too much to be a niche. A niche vehicle, by definition, is an out-of-the-ordinary vehicle that appeals to a relatively small number of buyers. Good examples of niche vehicles are the Plymouth Prowler, Maybach 57/62, and Ford GT.
09-18-09, 03:07 PM
#55
Lexus Fanatic
Niche in this case is what it is compared to what BMW and Mercedes sell (Lexus prime competitors). Lexus chose to sell a rather mundane FWD roomy sedan (straying from the enthusiast-oriented balanced RWD platform) at a lower price point than the 2 main competitors creating a niche in the premium luxury brand business. Smart move in retrospect, neither Mercedes or BMW have a competing model.
09-18-09, 03:08 PM
#56
Lexus Fanatic
Like Iacocca said about the Chysler Imperial in it's last days, something like you can't keep marketing a car to those that will be dead soon enough.
09-18-09, 03:27 PM
#57
Well, I wouldnt necessary compare run of the mill pushrod engine to the pushrod engine in the Corvette. The one in the Corvette is rather high tech and maxed out, while the traditional 3800 that was used across GM's lineup was a horrible engine from all perspectives. Dated back to the 60ies, produced pathetic power, lacked smoothness and refinement and started leaking like a pig after 60k.
09-18-09, 03:42 PM
#58
Lexus Fanatic
Well, I wouldnt necessary compare run of the mill pushrod engine to the pushrod engine in the Corvette. The one in the Corvette is rather high tech and maxed out, while the traditional 3800 that was used across GM's lineup was a horrible engine from all perspectives. Dated back to the 60ies, produced pathetic power, lacked smoothness and refinement and started leaking like a pig after 60k.
The 3.8 V6 was a original Buick design that debuted in the 1960's, and, as you note, was not known for smoothness. That was because of the 90-degree V-orientation of the cylinder banks (it was essentially the 5.0L V8 with the two rear cylinders cut off). A 90-degree-bank works fine with a V8 but, because of harmonical firing problems with only 6 cylinders, not as well as with a conventional straight-six (you'll notice that all the newer V6s have different bank angles.....some as low as 15 degrees on VW engines).
But, on the other hand, the 3.8L had had almost a half a century's worth of improvements to it over the years, both at Buick and at the other GM divisions using it. As for excessive leaks after 60K, I have not heard much about that......with all the improvements over the years, it has developed a reputation for good reliability, at least by GM standards.
09-18-09, 03:48 PM
#59
Lexus Fanatic
OK, Professor. 
(Just kidding)
The ES was never supposed to be anything but a soft-riding, FWD, entry-level luxury sedan....that's why Lexus developed other, sportier, RWD lines like the GS and IS, for the enthusiasts. Until 2006, and the stiffening of the tires/suspension and cheapening of the interior, they stuck to that principle.....and it worked. 
(Just kidding)
Niche in this case is what it is compared to what BMW and Mercedes sell (Lexus prime competitors). Lexus chose to sell a rather mundane FWD roomy sedan (straying from the enthusiast-oriented balanced RWD platform) at a lower price point than the 2 main competitors creating a niche in the premium luxury brand business. Smart move in retrospect, neither Mercedes or BMW have a competing model.
09-18-09, 03:53 PM
#60
Lexus Fanatic
Back to the new Lacrosse and the thread topic. With the Lexus comparison ads, this is actually not anything new, though I don't remember Buick ever actually saying something openly (or displaying something) like that, in public. Its marketing strategy, however, has been aimed at Lexus now for several years.....that, by the company's own admission, is no secret.