SerasLibre

I've been reading up on a few forums about the miraculous effects of water decarbonization, especially on cars used mostly for short trips, as well as those with high miles. Has anybody tried it on their LS?

The procedure involves spraying/trickling water into your intake plenum/manifold. The high temperatures during the combustion event cause the water molecules to explode into steam, causing micro-shockwaves that dislodge the carbon buildup from the cylinder head, walls, and valves.

I've done significant research (haven't tried it myself yet, but plan on performing the procedure tomorrow on my Subaru with 180k mi.), and found that in cases where the user has tried SeaFoam, GM Top End Cleaner, and water (not at the same time), the water is most effective.

In a large majority of cases, this will fix rough idling/surging issues (as long as everything else in your engine is up to spec), which doesn't seem to be a problem for anyone here - yet, but since the LS is among the longest lasting of sedans, this may be something some of us may want to try when we break the 100K, 200K+ barrier.

Red Square

i seen a few track car equiped with an alcohol sprayer. i think water will work too but just not as well. but i remember those cars were running tunable AEM ecu.

DNC

I wonder if a steady diet of premium gas eliminates the need for this? My car only get's premium BP-Amoco.
I once had an early 80's Town Car that I sold with 158,000 miles on it. The guy who purchased it from me used it to experiment with. He called me one night to drive over and look at the inside of my old car's engine. I could not believe how clean the engine was, especially the valves. This car too only had a steady diet of Amoco premium gas and 3,000 mile oil changes.

danxp

at the risk of being called a threadjacker...

i suspect that amoco/bp premium is the best or at least one of the best... i tried exxon premium and sunoco ultra, but those don't seem to impress me as much when i fill up with bp premium... after i fill up with bp, it's like i switched the mode to sport when it's been on econ the whole time... is it just my imagination?

anyway, i'm curious to see what the results are for the water decarbonization... please post results...

Lexmex

Gasoline won't do anything to help the issue he is talking about, because the gasoline (and its additives) never make it to the intake chamber/plenum/manifold. The buildup is actually caused by the recirculation of crankcase gases back into the intake chamber upon which they are put into the combustion cycle. It's an emission thing. As a result, that buildup sits on the walls. That's the whole point behind using a product like seafoam.

I've done what has been described when I lived in Mexico and used to spray some water into both of the two openings of my throttle body and it felt not too longer after driving like the car had taken a sneeze.

danxp

so you're saying it worked?

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

This is also called water injection. It works and it decarbonizes. The water removes heat from the combustion chamber by a state change (liquid to gas) and will allow the engine to use a lower octane fuel and get the same performance as higher octane fuel. A side benefit is decarbonizing the engine (the combustion chamber - head, piston, valves) which keeps the compression ratio at the manufactured number, not a slowly increasing number from carbon build up.

The only real downside to water injection is the need to keep the water container filled with water. You can dump an amazing amount of water into a running engine (I've poured an 8 oz container of water into a 6 cylinder running at 2500 rpm as fast as I could dump it without issues) to decarbonize selectively (not run regular injection). If you pull the engine apart immediately after this, you'll see the piston crowns and the combustion chamber in the head are immaculately clean. It beats the snot out of using solvents or plastic media blasting to remove baked on carbon.

Och

iTrader: (3)

I had great results with Strauss Auto "Run-Rite" service. They run a solvent through the intake chamber, but unlike seafoam they run it slowly, the bottle of solvent gets sucked in over a period of about 30 minutes. Amazing after the service I took off the throttle body and the intake manifold was so clean that you could literally out of it.

I dont know about dumping 8 oz of water into a running engine... Is there a change to stall it and get it hydrolocked?

SerasLibre

Well, I finally did it on my Subaru this afternoon, and it worked like a charm. The engine is much more peppy, idles smoother, and seems to run quieter. I'm sure if I have more patience and run more water than what I did (used 100-200mL max), I will see an even greater improvement.

danxp

will you be trying on the ls soon too?

Lil4X

I've heard good things about "water decarbonization", but it just sounds wrong. Maybe it's like snorting warm salt water to clear your sinuses - it works fine but you just have to torque up your courage to try it.

I've worked on a few old warbirds out of the WW2 era that had water injection. The P-47's Pratt and Whitney R-2800 Double Wasp engine made 2800 hp out of 2804 in³ (46 L) displacement and 115-octane avgas, to swing a 13-foot four-bladed prop. The same engine saw service in the Hellcat, Bearcat, and Corsair, and the pilots sitting behind it scored the greatest number of air combat victories in WW2.



The P-47 used water injection on takeoff from short fields with a heavy weapons load, benefiting primarily from the anti-knock properties of the system when the engine was in full blower at sea level. Water injection cooled the intake mixture and allowed higher manifold pressures, thus producing more power. In this application, the water was mixed with equal parts of ethanol and a trace of soluble oil to prevent freezing at altitude and to lubricate the injection pump.

Of course the same cooling effect could be had by setting the mixture to full rich and letting the excess fuel simply dump through the engine carrying away excess heat, but that cost fuel and range . . . not to mention producing rather spectacular flames from the exhaust stacks. Intake air temperature was critical and the pilot was well aware that his engine was getting hot charge air when hammering along on the deck because the blower plumbing ran along both sides of the cockpit at armpit level. One less instrument to read.



The water injection allowed for a leaner mixture setting. To eliminate all of the left-hand fiddling with throttle, blower, injection, and mixture when the pilot needed to be focused on his takeoff, the system was pretty largely automatic. When you went to "full military power" the throttle passed a detent that spooled up the turbo-supercharger located in the aft fuselage (throttle response not being an issue with 2800 ponies available). As the blower came on line, a valve on the pressure carburetor leaned out the mixture and began spraying water into the carb. It was pretty foolproof - the pilot only had to worry about the throttle lever, everything else pretty well took care of itself.

The effect was instant horsepower, a cooler exhaust, and considerable fuel savings. The numbers showed a 40 mph boost in speed during level flight with the water injection. Top speed was over 467 mph in level flight, up from 420 without the water injection (later versions of the aircraft, the "M"model developed at the end of the war could break 500 mph in level flight.

Of course if you had to get out of a combat situation quickly, you dropped the nose and your big eight and a half ton bird would accelerate to over 700 mph before it ran into transonic "compressibility" an possible loss of control. This is probably where the term "drop like a rock" came from. It may have been a little crude, but that big iron bird established a stellar combat record, proving that BIG displacement, a turbo, and water injection is pretty hard to beat.

In automotive applications, both the 1962 Corvair Spyder and Corsa, and Oldsmobile F-85 Jetfire used water injection to cool the charge air coming from the turbos. The Corvair's air cooled flat six, and the 215 CID V8 in the F-85 both used "turbo fluid" (a water-ethanol mix) to fill a small tank under the hood that would be sprayed into the intake under heavy applications of throttle. The technology came directly from the WW2 fighter aircraft and worked without any major problems.

Why was it abandoned? First of all, these were all-mechanical turbo/injection systems, without the sophistication of today's sensors and ECM's. Fighter aircraft generally flew 50 hours or so before an engine swap and overhaul. While that's 6-8 missions in the air, with a good chance of being shot down or the engine wrecked by battle damage, your family car is expected to run for more than six months without an engine teardown. Warranty issues finally ended turbos and water injection systems in domestic automobiles. Back in the day they were considered high-maintenance.