Production Honda CR-Zzzzzzz revealed (priced, 20k base, hits dealers in Aug)
01-02-10 | 11:36 PM
#106
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2005
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This is what I am worried about FT-86 as well... I hope Toyota is a lot smarter than this, and knows people need higher hp options. No matter how lightweight of the car, you cant sell sport cars anymore with low hp numbers.
This reminds me a lot about Miata's and MR-S's, and it seems some companies never learn.
This reminds me a lot about Miata's and MR-S's, and it seems some companies never learn.
01-03-10 | 12:08 AM
#107
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: Waiting for next track day
This is what I am worried about FT-86 as well... I hope Toyota is a lot smarter than this, and knows people need higher hp options. No matter how lightweight of the car, you cant sell sport cars anymore with low hp numbers.
This reminds me a lot about Miata's and MR-S's, and it seems some companies never learn.
This reminds me a lot about Miata's and MR-S's, and it seems some companies never learn.
01-03-10 | 09:34 AM
#108
Pole Position
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,882
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From: Coral Springs, Fl
in proper hybrid, such as Toyota HSD, there is no transmission per say... it is power-splitting device that regulates what power is being used at what time. In idea it works similar to CVT. It is very efficient, small and troublefree. So this "transmission" is the crucial part of the Toyota HSD system, the most important one.
On the other hand, CR-Z will never be able to operate in electric only mode, its very small electric motor will be able to assist normal engine... but 13hp? I think Prius 3g has battery output of 44hp for electric motor.
So you will end up with car that costs a lot of money, has lower mpg than Insight and is slower than Prius. What is the point of sports coupe that gets 10sec 0-62? Are you going to race stick shift Yarii that cost 12k? Because any other coupe sold in the USA, will be considerably faster than that.
On the other hand, CR-Z will never be able to operate in electric only mode, its very small electric motor will be able to assist normal engine... but 13hp? I think Prius 3g has battery output of 44hp for electric motor.
So you will end up with car that costs a lot of money, has lower mpg than Insight and is slower than Prius. What is the point of sports coupe that gets 10sec 0-62? Are you going to race stick shift Yarii that cost 12k? Because any other coupe sold in the USA, will be considerably faster than that.
01-03-10 | 10:41 AM
#111
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both cars have very poor battery output (which is how you get the power from the motors), designed for mild hybrids. This is why CR-Z will be slower than 12k Yaris.
01-03-10 | 10:43 AM
#112
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it will smack the Yaris completly out of the track, of course... but are you going to pay 20k for sports coupe to smack 12k yarii around? Because everything else is going to smack you ;-).
01-03-10 | 10:47 AM
#113
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Thats like saying people would be happy with 9.0 0-62 FT-86, which has 130hp, because it will be faster than Corolla.
On the other hand, CR-Z and FT-86 will have similar price... one will be sub 7 second vehicle, one will be sub 10 second vehicle... for similar money. I hope there will be sub 6s FT-86 ;-)
On the other hand, CR-Z and FT-86 will have similar price... one will be sub 7 second vehicle, one will be sub 10 second vehicle... for similar money. I hope there will be sub 6s FT-86 ;-)
01-03-10 | 10:58 AM
#114
So then why would it matter if it's 'slower than a 12k yaris.' Lots of cars are slower than their competitors while being priced higher. They're not direct competitors at all so why would 0-60mph matter between the two?
01-03-10 | 11:37 AM
#115
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Or maybe there is some other point to sport coupes that I did not get yet?
01-03-10 | 11:56 AM
#116
Yes you're missing the point. Performance isn't determined by 0-60mph alone which is why I cannot comment if this car is fantastic or not since I (nor anyone else) has driven it. Am I disappointed with the (reported) acceleration? Hell yes I am, but I know far better than to judge a car based on its 0-60mph times. If it handles great, then that's one thing it has going for it. If it doesn't, then it's an epic fail. End of story.
01-03-10 | 12:15 PM
#117
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Yes you're missing the point. Performance isn't determined by 0-60mph alone which is why I cannot comment if this car is fantastic or not since I (nor anyone else) has driven it. Am I disappointed with the (reported) acceleration? Hell yes I am, but I know far better than to judge a car based on its 0-60mph times. If it handles great, then that's one thing it has going for it. If it doesn't, then it's an epic fail. End of story.
Hondas hybrid system is lame, period with hardly any improvements since the original insight. Ten years!!!
01-03-10 | 12:23 PM
#119
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Yes you're missing the point. Performance isn't determined by 0-60mph alone which is why I cannot comment if this car is fantastic or not since I (nor anyone else) has driven it. Am I disappointed with the (reported) acceleration? Hell yes I am, but I know far better than to judge a car based on its 0-60mph times. If it handles great, then that's one thing it has going for it. If it doesn't, then it's an epic fail. End of story.
A lot of people here claimed Prius is too slow to merge on the highway... in gear acceleration should be faster in Prius than this vehicle ;-).
But yeah, this car does not compete with Prius or Yaris or Corolla or Camry or Avalon.
It competes with the likes of performance hatches/coupes/sedans at 20k-25k category, all of which are significantly faster than it, and most of them handle well as well. But with such difference in horsepower, i doubt anyone will care.
Unless they are bringing this at 15k price, which i very much doubt... lets hope it will be same price as Insight...
01-03-10 | 12:37 PM
#120
Performance has never been about 0-60 by itself. Never has been and never will be regardless if the car is 'fast' or not.
I'm not defending this car (haven't driven it yet), nor am I against it. If it fails miserably, then I could care less. I just won't buy one.
The days of $15k Honda coupes are long gone anyways.