September 2009 Vehicles Sales
10-02-09, 12:57 PM
#76
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regardless of whatever sales goals they had in mind for GS, they can't be happy with its numbers right now.
10-02-09, 01:51 PM
#77
Lexus Champion
Sales goals/objectives are moving targets:
Launch = Optimistic outlook, 50% of it is marketing to show that the mfgr. has confidence in their new model.
Year one = Revised #'s. Consumers are actually deciding how well the new car does. # goes up or down depending on the sales of the new model.
Year two = Reality has set in and the model is probably doing as well as it is going to and the goal/objective is realistic.
Launch = Optimistic outlook, 50% of it is marketing to show that the mfgr. has confidence in their new model.
Year one = Revised #'s. Consumers are actually deciding how well the new car does. # goes up or down depending on the sales of the new model.
Year two = Reality has set in and the model is probably doing as well as it is going to and the goal/objective is realistic.
10-02-09, 04:38 PM
#78
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Canada
General Motors: -23.4% to 23,568
Ford: +24.4% to 16,140*
Toyota: -11.1% to 16,065
Chrysler: -7.1% to 15,804
Honda: -12.2% to 11,272
Hyundai: +30.8% to 9,282*
Nissan: -0.9% to 6,594
Mazda: -3.6% to 6,520
Kia: +19.7% to 4,515*
Volkswagen: -4.2% to 3,508
Subaru: +68.4% to 2,544*
BMW: +50.1% to 2,402*
Mercedes-Benz: +24.9% to 2,248*
Mitsubishi: +18.5% to 1,735*
Lexus: +11.3% to 1,504*
Suzuki: +3.6% to 1,351*
Acura: -45% to 1,127
Audi: +17.1% to 1,111*
Infiniti: -14.3% to 639
Volvo: -6.4% to 508
Mini: -16.9% to 340
smart: +3.7% to 312*
Land Rover: -8.2% to 179
Porsche: +14% to 114*
Jaguar: -24.4% to 62
Saab: -48.2% to 59
General Motors: -23.4% to 23,568
Ford: +24.4% to 16,140*
Toyota: -11.1% to 16,065
Chrysler: -7.1% to 15,804
Honda: -12.2% to 11,272
Hyundai: +30.8% to 9,282*
Nissan: -0.9% to 6,594
Mazda: -3.6% to 6,520
Kia: +19.7% to 4,515*
Volkswagen: -4.2% to 3,508
Subaru: +68.4% to 2,544*
BMW: +50.1% to 2,402*
Mercedes-Benz: +24.9% to 2,248*
Mitsubishi: +18.5% to 1,735*
Lexus: +11.3% to 1,504*
Suzuki: +3.6% to 1,351*
Acura: -45% to 1,127
Audi: +17.1% to 1,111*
Infiniti: -14.3% to 639
Volvo: -6.4% to 508
Mini: -16.9% to 340
smart: +3.7% to 312*
Land Rover: -8.2% to 179
Porsche: +14% to 114*
Jaguar: -24.4% to 62
Saab: -48.2% to 59
10-02-09, 07:58 PM
#79
Moderator
Ok, here's a link:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...now-added.html
Apparently 68% of ClubLexus believes that Buick is a luxury brand. Maybe they're not "experts", but at least 68% of Lexus fanatics honestly believe that Buick belongs on that list. That says alot. You typically make derogatory comments against what the "experts" have to say anyway (especially when they don't agree with your opinions), so what would that prove anyway?
I distinctly remember you claiming that MOST people do not consider Buick to be a luxury brand, yet almost 70% of Lexus fans believe that to be the case. So, do you care to modify your statement just a bit?
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...now-added.html
Apparently 68% of ClubLexus believes that Buick is a luxury brand. Maybe they're not "experts", but at least 68% of Lexus fanatics honestly believe that Buick belongs on that list. That says alot. You typically make derogatory comments against what the "experts" have to say anyway (especially when they don't agree with your opinions), so what would that prove anyway?
I distinctly remember you claiming that MOST people do not consider Buick to be a luxury brand, yet almost 70% of Lexus fans believe that to be the case. So, do you care to modify your statement just a bit?
10-02-09, 10:06 PM
#80
Lexus Champion
Ok, here's a link:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...now-added.html
Apparently 68% of ClubLexus believes that Buick is a luxury brand. Maybe they're not "experts", but at least 68% of Lexus fanatics honestly believe that Buick belongs on that list. That says alot. You typically make derogatory comments against what the "experts" have to say anyway (especially when they don't agree with your opinions), so what would that prove anyway?
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...now-added.html
Apparently 68% of ClubLexus believes that Buick is a luxury brand. Maybe they're not "experts", but at least 68% of Lexus fanatics honestly believe that Buick belongs on that list. That says alot. You typically make derogatory comments against what the "experts" have to say anyway (especially when they don't agree with your opinions), so what would that prove anyway?
It says less than 9% of CL believes that Buick is true luxury.
59% believe it is not true luxury.
32% believe it is not luxury at all.
I'd read that as 91% of CL doesn't view Buick as being significant in the luxury car market.
10-02-09, 10:13 PM
#81
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So 59% + 9% = 68% of ClubLexus.
I never claimed Buick to be a full lineup luxury brand, but they are entry level luxury. So Buick handles the entry level luxury market and Cadillac handles the higher end models. Entry level + Higher End level luxury = full lineup. So as concluded, GM was the #1 luxury automaker for the month of September and barely trails Lexus for the year.
10-02-09, 10:20 PM
#82
Lexus Champion
59% think Buick is "entry level luxury". Did you not read the poll?
So 59% + 9% = 68% of ClubLexus.
I never claimed Buick to be a full lineup luxury brand, but they are entry level luxury. So Buick handles the entry level luxury market and Cadillac handles the higher end models. Entry level + Higher End level luxury = full lineup. So as concluded, GM was the #1 luxury automaker for the month of September and barely trails Lexus for the year.
So 59% + 9% = 68% of ClubLexus.
I never claimed Buick to be a full lineup luxury brand, but they are entry level luxury. So Buick handles the entry level luxury market and Cadillac handles the higher end models. Entry level + Higher End level luxury = full lineup. So as concluded, GM was the #1 luxury automaker for the month of September and barely trails Lexus for the year.
Its not true luxury, its entry level luxury like Acura, Saab. etc... 33 - 58.93%
No, its not a luxury brand at all 18 - 32.14%
Maybe you should go look at the poll again.
I quoted it right here for you since you apparently didn't read it.
NOT TRUE LUXURY.....how much more clear would you like it?
10-02-09, 11:25 PM
#83
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Yes, 100% a legitimate luxury brand 5 - 8.93%
Its not true luxury, its entry level luxury like Acura, Saab. etc... 33 - 58.93%
No, its not a luxury brand at all 18 - 32.14%
Maybe you should go look at the poll again. I quoted it right here for you since you apparently didn't read it.
NOT TRUE LUXURY.....how much more clear would you like it?
Its not true luxury, its entry level luxury like Acura, Saab. etc... 33 - 58.93%
No, its not a luxury brand at all 18 - 32.14%
Maybe you should go look at the poll again.
I quoted it right here for you since you apparently didn't read it.NOT TRUE LUXURY.....how much more clear would you like it?
It was a poorly written option in my opinion. He should have wrote "it's not a full line luxury brand, its entry level luxury like Acura, Saab. etc..."
That would have made a lot more sense.
Regardless, the end result is that most people on this forum consider Buick to be at least entry level luxury. And entry level luxury is still luxury, no?
10-02-09, 11:28 PM
#84
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Buick is a toughy. They are certainly luxury in terms of american cars, but I place them below acura and infiniti when put with foreign cars. Not perceived as luxury to me.
10-03-09, 05:36 AM
#85
Lexus Champion
My take on the poll is that 58.93% of those who responded think Buick is an entry level brand. Does that make it a luxury brand, probably. The whole subject is too subjective to expect much agreement.
10-03-09, 10:05 AM
#86
Lexus Fanatic
10-03-09, 11:03 AM
#87
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
and the lacrosse looks ok externally from some angles, but the back end is AWFUL.
10-03-09, 11:48 AM
#88
Speaks French in Russian
LOL at all this Buick luxury brand stuff. Just because GM throws in Lexus in some commercials and marketing doesnt make them a luxury brand. Thats like calling Hyundai a luxury brand because they market the Genesis sedan as a luxury competitor.
In a few years we will have a 20-25K Buick Regal based off of the Opel/Chinese market Regal and they were going to rebadge the Saturn Vue as a Buick crossover. Yea, thats luxury.
Im even having a hard time considering Cadillac a full luxury brand. No LS/7/S competitor, STS is no where to be found and DTS is used for livery purposes mostly.
With that said, the LaCrosse is awesome. I love the way it looks on the road (however interior is WTF ugly), and has some luxurious features but honestly, if Buick is luxury then so is Mercury.
In a few years we will have a 20-25K Buick Regal based off of the Opel/Chinese market Regal and they were going to rebadge the Saturn Vue as a Buick crossover. Yea, thats luxury.
Im even having a hard time considering Cadillac a full luxury brand. No LS/7/S competitor, STS is no where to be found and DTS is used for livery purposes mostly.
With that said, the LaCrosse is awesome. I love the way it looks on the road (however interior is WTF ugly), and has some luxurious features but honestly, if Buick is luxury then so is Mercury.
10-03-09, 12:15 PM
#89
Lexus Champion
LOL at all this Buick luxury brand stuff. Just because GM throws in Lexus in some commercials and marketing doesnt make them a luxury brand. Thats like calling Hyundai a luxury brand because they market the Genesis sedan as a luxury competitor.
In a few years we will have a 20-25K Buick Regal based off of the Opel/Chinese market Regal and they were going to rebadge the Saturn Vue as a Buick crossover. Yea, thats luxury.
Im even having a hard time considering Cadillac a full luxury brand. No LS/7/S competitor, STS is no where to be found and DTS is used for livery purposes mostly.
With that said, the LaCrosse is awesome. I love the way it looks on the road (however interior is WTF ugly), and has some luxurious features but honestly, if Buick is luxury then so is Mercury.
In a few years we will have a 20-25K Buick Regal based off of the Opel/Chinese market Regal and they were going to rebadge the Saturn Vue as a Buick crossover. Yea, thats luxury.
Im even having a hard time considering Cadillac a full luxury brand. No LS/7/S competitor, STS is no where to be found and DTS is used for livery purposes mostly.
With that said, the LaCrosse is awesome. I love the way it looks on the road (however interior is WTF ugly), and has some luxurious features but honestly, if Buick is luxury then so is Mercury.
Agree entirely!