Volkswagen Is Steering Toward American Tastes
10-06-09, 10:58 AM
#61
Audi A4 2.0T Quattro. Been there, done that, still a product of "compromise" just like all the sports sedans in the world today. In my dictionary they are not "driver's cars", a true driver's car is a no non-sense all out performer (like the Elise and Exige). If the Passat can be a "driver's car" then any of the entry level sports sedans can be a driver's car too, which I don't agree...
10-06-09, 11:02 AM
#62
I'll raise you one better...
Audi A4 2.0T Quattro. Been there, done that, still a product of "compromise" just like all the sports sedans in the world today. In my dictionary they are not "driver's cars", a true driver's car is a no non-sense all out performer (like the Elise and Exige). If the Passat can be a "driver's car" then any of the entry level sports sedans can be a driver's car too, which I don't agree...
Audi A4 2.0T Quattro. Been there, done that, still a product of "compromise" just like all the sports sedans in the world today. In my dictionary they are not "driver's cars", a true driver's car is a no non-sense all out performer (like the Elise and Exige). If the Passat can be a "driver's car" then any of the entry level sports sedans can be a driver's car too, which I don't agree...
10-06-09, 11:25 AM
#64
Driving enthusiasts need to drink bottled water instead of high carb supersize fast food soda. The gunky stuff will only make you too fat to get behind the wheel.
VW along with other German automaker cup holders are only good for slim bottles or mugs.
The Camry is great to get to & from Church service..
VW along with other German automaker cup holders are only good for slim bottles or mugs.
All I know is, I get behind the wheels of a A4, I have a lot more fun than driving a Camry.
10-06-09, 11:35 AM
#65
Lexus Test Driver
BMW does have crappy cupholders, but the Audi cupholders are ok.
10-06-09, 12:16 PM
#66
So what's your point? 
I didn't say VW doesn't make "driver's car"... FKL told me to drive a Passat, I told him I drove the A4 already (which is a bit sportier than Passat IMO) and that doesn't impress me.
What's your point on bringing out the Gallardo?
So now the so-called enthusiasts aren't only telling the world what cars to drive they are also telling us what the enthusiasts should drink?
Okay...
I didn't say VW doesn't make "driver's car"... FKL told me to drive a Passat, I told him I drove the A4 already (which is a bit sportier than Passat IMO) and that doesn't impress me.
What's your point on bringing out the Gallardo?
Okay...
10-06-09, 01:24 PM
#67
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I'll raise you one better...
Audi A4 2.0T Quattro. Been there, done that, still a product of "compromise" just like all the sports sedans in the world today. In my dictionary they are not "driver's cars", a true driver's car is a no non-sense all out performer (like the Elise and Exige). If the Passat can be a "driver's car" then any of the entry level sports sedans can be a driver's car too, which I don't agree...
Audi A4 2.0T Quattro. Been there, done that, still a product of "compromise" just like all the sports sedans in the world today. In my dictionary they are not "driver's cars", a true driver's car is a no non-sense all out performer (like the Elise and Exige). If the Passat can be a "driver's car" then any of the entry level sports sedans can be a driver's car too, which I don't agree...
The A4 is a nice car too, but it's more expensive and doesn't compete with these cars in question (the segment VW is building their "Americanized" cars in). I am not sure what aspect of the A4 didn't impress you (it's clearly not as crisp as a 3-series), but it's a great driving little car in most regards. Plus the build quality has always been beyond reproach.
Last edited by FKL; 10-06-09 at 01:30 PM.
10-06-09, 01:29 PM
#68
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10-06-09, 01:48 PM
#69
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For ME, as an enthusiast, Toyota offers more of what *I* want than VW or Honda. In terms of comfortable daily driver's cars, Toyota offers what I want.
When taking about a sports or sporty product, I want as little compromise as possible, so that is why Honda and VW don't interest me with their compromised products.
Toyotas are more designed for comfort and refinement than say Hondas or some VWs. They don't have high or overly sporty performance, but I would never want that in a mainstream vehicle.
I want explicitly sporty performance only on an explicit sports car, or ultra-high-performance sports sedan.
It's all relative. The Passat has the best all around feel in the mid-sized family car segment. The brakes are excellent, has crisp turn in, nice throttle tip in, great gearbox choices (6speed/dual-clutch), great firm/supportive sport seats, nice torque down low, etc. It's just more geared towards spirited driving than the other competitors. The Camry SE V6 may be able to boast similar grip numbers, but at the end of the day it's really all about feel. The Camry just doesn't have it - the steering is still overboosted and feels sloppy. And the ride/handling tradeoff is huge. Fast car, no doubt, but it's more of a speedboat than anything built from the start for performance.
The A4 is a nice car too, but it's more expensive and doesn't compete with these cars in question (the segment VW is building their "Americanized" cars in). I am not sure what aspect of the A4 didn't impress you (it's clearly not as crisp as a 3-series), but it's a great driving little car in most regards. Plus the build quality has always been beyond reproach.
The A4 is a nice car too, but it's more expensive and doesn't compete with these cars in question (the segment VW is building their "Americanized" cars in). I am not sure what aspect of the A4 didn't impress you (it's clearly not as crisp as a 3-series), but it's a great driving little car in most regards. Plus the build quality has always been beyond reproach.
. Don't answer this though, it was a rhetorical question. He clearly explained why he didn't like the A4, because it's a compromise like every other midsize sedan on the market. Also your circular arguments and reasoning are becoming tiresome. The Passat *might* have the best "feel" in the midsize sedan segment in North America (feel, a concept which is relative and subjective to begin with), but NOT in Europe.
It's ironic that you you praise the Passat so much, which is a (Western) European vehicle, *designed for Europeans*, sold in North America. Then you compare it to North American models designed in North America, which are quite a bit cheaper price-wise than the Passat, and you ultimately declare the Passat as a superior vehicle.
When you compare apples to apples, such as comparing the Passat to OTHER European midsize sedan competitors, suddenly the Passat is not superior at all. The Passat becomes merely average.
10-06-09, 02:07 PM
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come on lets keep it civil...
10-06-09, 02:17 PM
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Just to add, because I don't like compromise too much, I want a daily mainstream car to be very comfortable, and refined, which Toyota does well with.
As for sports/sporty or performance, I want no compromise with that either, which means midsize sedans that try too hard to be sporty are out of the question for me. VW and Honda, I'm looking at you.
As for sports/sporty or performance, I want no compromise with that either, which means midsize sedans that try too hard to be sporty are out of the question for me. VW and Honda, I'm looking at you.
Last edited by TRDFantasy; 10-06-09 at 02:22 PM.
10-06-09, 02:32 PM
#74
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yep, can't tell everything from the armchair. It's easier to throw around quantitative numbers and call it a day than try and further a valid point with qualitative and sometimes relative sounding aspects like "feel". So be the way it goes...
