CDNROCKIES

More nonsense.

Have you even been in an F?

It certainly has that heavy door and tight closing like you always talk about, a higher level of trim and interior, and engine quality and soundness that is at par or better than the Germans.

P.S. My X5 is on it's way into the shop tomorrow for a major engine oil leak. The electronic display in the dash works periodically, the seats are a joke compared to either our F or Benz and the ergonomics are ridiculously bad. Who would have thought that designing functional cup holders would be so difficult? Build quality to be proud of.

FKL

What a high class reply.

rinthiran

Boy, I didn't mean to ask such a loaded question! Please no need to get all worked up everyone. I know that all these cars have fantastic 0-60 and 1/4 mile times, no question that they are all fast or super fast sport sedans with somewhat minor differences in ultimate acceleration; well, except for the IS-F. I was more interested in every-day commute use, the 1,500 rpm - 4,000 rpm range in 0-40mph and 50-90mph uses. The powerband that is usually crappy for high-revving motors, or for turbo engines with big turbo-lags.

I'm pretty sure I got my answer.

Yeah, I can't do stiff suspensions anymore; forget about city commuting in San Francisco in that car! Its too bad the IS-F's suspension is so stiff for daily commute purposes... Would have been a good upgrade for me from my IS350.

mmarshall

The S4 I reviewed, though it had a few cheap plastic stalks and a couple of various plastic parts around the dash, showed what I thought was far better overall build quality than the new 2008 M3 I reviewed last year. That M3 (at 63K, I might add) had several significant defects, among them a drivers' seat power-motor/adjuster system that cut in and out and wouldn't work properly and a back-seat armrest assembly that was never fastened at all and simply fell out on the floor. BMW, admittedly, has some excellent points, among them some good sheet metal and some of the best chassis/suspension/steering engineers in the world, but their assembly quality, and electronics, is not the best.

mmarshall

I have to agree with CDROCKIES on this one. Though the Lexus ES350, to an extent, has been a disappointment, Lexus build/assembly quality, in general, exceeds that of the Germans, though there is no denying the good German sheet metal, and Audi's superb fit/finish (I was very impressed with both the S4 and S5).

And he is also correct on the X5. According to Consumer Reports, it has had a long history of worse-than-average reliability; the most significant issue, of course, of course, being the defective cooling-fan switches and engine fires of its first year. BMW had to replace a number of engines under warranty....and even entire vehicles.

mmarshall

Thanks for the reply, rinthiran. I myself didn't get worked up at all. I'm glad you got what you needed.

The 335 has good response at lower RPM's with little if any turbo lag. Most newer cars with twin turbos have an dual-overlap system where boost is guaranteed quickly....sometimes by keeping one of the turbos spinning at a lower RPM constantly with a fuel shut-off. When you give it the gas, the fuel-injectors start to feed an already moderately-spinning turbo as it gains RPM. Then, while the first one is spooling up, the second one cuts in and provides even more boost.



If my memory is right San Francisco has some older, brick roads. That, and the steep hills/ramps, really tore up Steve McQueen's Bullitt Mustang during that famous movie scene.....and in some of the cars for Clint Eastwood's Dirty Harry films.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

CDNROCKIES, FKL - both of you please exit this thread from this point forward for making personal commentary that should have been left out of your posts.

The G Man

The difference between a German suspension and a Japanese one is still the compromise between handing and comfort. The Japanese can make a suspension handle well, such as the IS-F, but they cannot make it ride somewhat comfortable. I suppose someday, when active suspension becomes the norm, then the Japanese might have an advantage, since they are so good at electronics.

rinthiran

Bad roads in San Francisco are more caused by the geography. It seems like half of SF was built on sand dunes, shifting soil and reclaimed land in the early 1900s (think sink holes everywhere), on top of the San Andreas Fault that creates cracks in new concrete, roads, etc. in a matter of a couple months, and the hilly terrain. You’re right about steep hills/ramps, sharp-crested road edges. Not that many brick roads anymore, they usually don’t last more than a few years due to significant earth movement.

DASHOCKER

iTrader: (2)

I like the fact that Audi has the S & RS line of cars. It is as AMG & AMG Black series is to Mercedes Benz. The Audi S6 & S8 are two potent machines with V10 power. They are still roaming the streets.. Audi is set to bring out more RS cars utilizing turbos instead of supercharging as in the S line of cars.

LexFather

You CANNOT make BLANKET STATEMENTS about ALL German/Japanese cars like that.

There are plenty of examples of soft German vehicles and Japanese vehicles that balance sport/good ride.

The G Man

Blanket statment, no, but general statment yes.

LexFather

Its still wrong. Benz's ride soft, they are disconnected as much as any Lexus. AMG makes things better. Otherwise they have never been known for sport or handling.
Audi is the same. Audi has even worse steering and handles fine and up until very very recently were behind BMW. Most of their cars are not S/RS or sport equipped cars. THey are comfy cruisers
BMW is the sportiest brand and they sell an abundance of non sport equipped vehicles. 520 in Europe anyone?
Infiniti has a nice balance with their lineup sans the QX56. Sport, feel, luxury
Lexus has balanced that with the SC, GS, IS. They have the ES/LS/SUVs leaning to comfort.
Acura blends both ways as well and like Audi is the FWD/AWD luxury car maker
Caddy has dropped more DTS style dynamics for CTS style dynamics
Volvo has also done the same

Both countries have examples of super sport, a blend of sport luxury and leaning hard toward luxury.

You cannot make BLANKET STATEMENTS about an entire countries cars (German/Japanese)

The G Man

MB, as much as a softrider it is, it still handles better than than a Lexus, especially with the sport package.

Audi's steering and handles is probably second behind BMW, but very well implemented in both areas none the less, and yes they are comfy cruisers too. The best combo of handling and comfort in my opinion.

Infiniti does handle nice, but one need a neck brace to drive one of those.

Lexus are the sofest rider of the bunch, except for the GS-F, which need a neck brace to drive as well.

Acura, even with the SH-AWD, does not have the combo of ride comfort and handling like the European cars yet.

Caddy and Volvo suprising have made suspensions that are pretty good recently. The handling and comfort are very close to the German.

Again, those are my observation, I know you do not agree, but one thing we can agree on is that : The Japanese suspensions is getting better and better, a lot closer to the Germans in recent years, but they still need to work on their chassis rigidity.

rogers2

I don't think he should just make a blanket statement. But 1SICKLEX I do think German carmakers tend to have better suspension makeup than most Jap carmaker. Hey lets be honest most people purchase Lexus vehicles because their cars suspension is as soft as marshmallows and of course reliable. Definately not for handling.
Hey I don't think that's a bad thing.

I really don't think Lexus make a well balance suspension with feedback at the current moment other than the IS.

FYI: I have never driven a Infiniti so I have no comment on their cars.