jwong77

Agreed, and if they can only hire back the people who styled the previous TL to do the styling.

joe80

I was afraid that it would grow on me.. and it really is growing on me especially the front.

what da hell is wrong with me?

92 SC400

Have you suffered any recent head trauma? Do you have blurred vision?

FisforFast

I mean that's nice and all but there's only one problem: who the hell is going to be buying a TL, let alone a manual one? I don't see a lot of them on the roads but those I do see are driven either by women or by snobby middle-aged men in Versace suits with matching sunglasses. I understand that even in this day and age there is an appeal for the stickshift but I honestly think it has become relatively redudant to offer one in a car that generally does not appeal to the 'purist' owner-base. There's a reason why manual transmissions are at-cost, special-order-only options on most Ferrari and high-end exotics. There's a reason why the Bugatti is not a 6-speed manual, or why the SLR McLaren was only offered with a, although strengthened, traditional 5-speed automatic that can also be found in several of Mopar's SRT models.

You must realize that in the real world, beyond the boundaries of these forums and other car communities on the Internet, 80% of people who buy manual transmission cars buy them because they can save in upwards of $1000 on their purchase. 15% buy them because that's the only transmission offered on the vehicle, and the other 5% just can't imagine living without a stickshift. It is not true that an automatic transmission cannot offer the same visceral experience as shifting through gears. I only bought my R8 with a 6-speed manual because I had driven an e-Gear/R-Tronic before and it was choppy at low speeds. After driving mine around downtown considerably over the past couple of weeks, I've come to realize that I am no better than the e-Gear's computer at managing pedal-play, and I'm a pretty experienced stickshift driver.

I've come to realize that most people who say that there's nothing that makes you feel more connected than a stickshift and a clutch pedal are absolutely clueless. When I ask, they either tell me they've never owned anything else, or never driven a car equipped with SMG, M-DCT, DSG, PDK, TC-SST, e-Gear, F1, or even Lexus' DSS or Nissan's 7-speed G-Tronic (I think it's called). Everyone I know who has driven my IS F, has told me that they have had as much, if not more fun, in the IS F than they have had in their own cars. Mind you, most of them are 6-speed MKIV Supra owners, Corvette owners, Lamborghini owners, etc.

That being said, the 6-speed is a relic, and the purists do not have any arguments left. There is no advantage of having a 6-speed manual over any of today's modern, performance-oriented automated transmission. No performance advantge, no 'feel' advantage. Those who say there is, are just living in the past, and refusing to accept change.

IS-SV

Adding the choice of 6 speed manual in sport/lux sedans does little to improve sales volume.

mmarshall

That's why the rev-matching systems were developed in the first place.....to keep those who aren't proficient at heel-and-toeing (or in cars with poorly-placed pedals) from jolting the drivetrain and tearing up the synchronizers while downshifting. There probably isn't one driver in a hundered who can really heel-and-toe correctly.....even in a car where the pedals make it comparably simple. I've been driving some 40 years, in both manuals and automatics, and still am not particularly good at it myself. The alternative, of course, is double-clutching....but even that takes some skills that many drivers don't have.


They WERE....until the S2000 was dropped.

SLegacy99

LOL. Finally, someone acknowledges that my Legacy GT is an exotic. Thank you! I've been sayin it for years.

IMO it isn't a sports sedan if it doesn't offer an alternantive to your conventional automatic. Sure, the GS may have some sport features, but in comparisson to a 5 series it just another touring car. Nevertheless, the cost of attaching a manual transmission to an engine is far from astronomical. Again, 3 and 5 series models are available with an MT in any variant, save the torquey 335d. Contrary to that, BMW hasnt sold a MT 7 series in the States for some time. And MTs were quite common in that vehicle during the 80s. For a while there you only ever saw BMWs with MTs. They have gotten the sport formula down.

IS-SV

IMO, a manual is a nice option to offer the sport/lux sedan buyer, but it rarely drives additional sales volume these days and for those that select it resale value ends up being lower. Many buyers of these premium sedans have weekend sports cars (with manuals) for the real sporting experience.

SLegacy99

I don't disagree with you. Nevertheless, the TL and ES are competitors and the TL has always been regarded as a sport option. I thought it was pretty lame when it was only offered with a 5AT. That being said, Acura is tier II luxury. The people buying Acuras probably don't have a second car for the weekend. Now, MB, BMW, Lexus, Audi I could see that.

IS-SV

Yes, I agree with you on above points. At least the TL beak is unique.

The G Man

The problem with the TL is that guys who like a driver's car would not be caught dead in a ugly car like that. It would be interesting to see the demographic of the new TL's owners.

dunnojack

this thread has me wanting to go to my Acura dealership to test drive this car.

and after the test drive, I will say to the salesman
"i'll take this ugly car off of your hands for 50% discount. It's the best I can do, since no one wants to buy it."

UDel

The 6 speed TL did 0-60 in 5.2 seconds and a sub 14 second quarter mile compared to a 0-60 in 5.9seconds+ and over 14 second quarter mile for the automatic TL from all the mag tests I have read. I would say there is a big pretty advantage performance wise for the 6 speed TL over the automatic.

You do know a fwd 08 6 speed TL-S with 286hp with a much older SOHC engine with no DI beat the smaller lighter 6 speed auto rwd IS350 with a newer 306hp DOHC DI engine in a very publicized race on a famous track by over 2 seconds. The 6 speed TL also beat a rwd 6 speed G35 that had more hp from a DOHC engine. I doubt an automatic would be able to perform like the manual did.

The fastest 0-60 I have seen from the manual 08 TL-S was 5.6 seconds and normal 3rd Gen 6 speed manual TL was also 5.6-5.7 seconds compared to 6+ seconds for the automatic 3rd Gen TLs. Also a clear performance advantage for the 6 speed manual compared to the automatic. Consider that just from that one test the 4th Gen 2010 TL 6 speed manual is .4 seconds quicker then the fastest 3rd Gen TL-S 6 speed it would be even quicker around that track then the 3rd Gen TL and beat the lighter smaller rwd IS350 6 speed auto by a wider margin. The automatic TL whether a 5 or 6 speed I doubt would be able to achieve this kind of performance the manual can.

Most agree Honda makes the best most precise satisfying manual transmissions of pretty much any car maker where they do perform a good deal better then the automatic versions of the same model. That may not be the case with all automakers where acceleration and performance times may be very similar with both manuals and autos but it is the case with Honda where there is often a pretty significant difference and to enthusiasts it is worth choosing the manual.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...racetrack.html

FisforFast

Thanks for trying to justify it, but I'm fairly certain that if Acura developed a performance-oriented automatic transmission instead of a smooth-shifting, comfort oriented transmission, it would be much better than the 6-speed manual that they are offering. A good automatic transmission always makes best use of any vehicle's powerband and that is why they are very popular in drag applications, as the numbers are always consistent, and allow for very little driver error. There is a reason, also, why SMG and DSG-type transmissions are becoming more and more popular in racing applications. They are much more consistent and faster than any manual transmission. I should probably also mention that I was talking about automated transmissions in general and I did not aim to single out the TL. I'm also fairly certain that in real-life applications, with the everymen, the automatic and the manual are fairly similar performance-wise.

Also, I must remind you that the test was conducted by C&D and we all know they have always had a hard-on for Hondas. Until more reports come in we should probably shouldn't jump to any conclusions. Regardless, people who buy the TL do not buy it for its performance, so the point in itself is rather moot. I must also remind you that motorsport enthusiasts do not drive Hondas, unless they are hardcore enough for an S2000, which is extremely difficult to exploit.

I must however agree with you that Honda has some of the easiest and smoothest manual transmissions on the market but from a performance perspective, they rarely have the powertrains to back them.

UDel

A higher performing manual version could have a "halo" effect to some like how offering a v8 option has that "halo" effect to some. People may read a bunch of reviews where the manual performs very well and beats competitors and then go check it out based on how that manual version performed and all the praise it got, they may be so impressed by the results of the review of the manual version that they end up being more interested in the car itself but get the automatic version because after thinking it over they don't want to be shifting all the time. Same thing when some readers see a v8 midsized sedan perform very well in a test and put up impressive numbers, they may now go check the model out or be more interested in it but decide they don't "need" the v8 and don't want to spend the extra on it but will get the 6 cylinder version which is what the vast majority chooses anyway when there is an option of a v6 or v8. V8's or manuals don't sell in big numbers but they may sell more automatic/6 cylinder versions or spark more interest to some who read good reviews about them.