mmarshall

The same can be said for Lexus, if you compare the LS with the LX, although, price-wise, the 100K-plus LS600h is clearly the most expensive.

IS-SV

Outside of the boardroom and internal management meetings at Acura/Honda, it's not clear who's going to be impressed or care.

The G Man

I alway thought of the LS as Lexus' flagship, it came out 1st and the top of the line LS600h is more expensive than the LX. I guess Lexus now have a new flagship model in the LA-F. There is definitely no confusion now

UDel

The beak is not good and the exterior redesign is disappointing but the version that came out in 2005 to 2008 was a nice looking design, a little conservative but still good looking and not offensive. I don't think it resembled an accord and it looked unique and upscale.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

that can't be true. lexus makes it very clear that the ls is the flagship, they use the word flagship with ls very often. there is no confusion on that

UDel

The RL is the flagship Acura. It is the most expensive, has the most features and technology, has the nicest most high quality interior, has the most advanced engine and most advanced version of SH-AWD.

ZDX has a more high end designer interior with the really soft leather and metal trim compared to the RL's traditional luxury interior with beautiful wood trim and more attention to detail.

Aside from the slightly nicer interior, softer leather, adjustable suspension, and cooled seats I don't really know why the ZDX is priced more then the larger MDX and is priced between the RL and MDX. I would think since it is smaller and has less seating then the MDX it should be a little less expensive and may sell better being less expensive then the MDX.

The G Man

Not according to the Acura management it is not.

Acura Rethinks Flagship Moniker With ZDX; RL Still Has Place
By Christie Schweinsberg
WardsAuto.com, Aug 21, 2009 8:00 AM

"ROCHESTER, MI – American Honda Motor Co. Inc.’s premium Acura brand says the RL sedan still has a place in its lineup, though monthly sales have fallen to a mere 100 units or so.
However, executives now view the upcoming ZDX cross/utility vehicle as Acura’s ultimate luxury model, a top official tells Ward’s.
“Having a vehicle above (the) TL is a good position for us,” Gary Robinson, assistant manager-Acura product planning, says on the sidelines of a recent media event here. "

IS-SV

Acura, by making the ZDX the flagship, is just admitting their position in the market as a non-Tier 1 car maker.

Maybe by going downmarket they can insure their position in the mid-level car market which has provided a decent business for them.

PAULGS430

Acura ceo & board of directors

Acura shareholders

Acura/Honda

GS3Tek

iTrader: (8)

if you can't be the worst of the best, might as well settle for the best of the worst.....make any sense???

mmarshall

The addition of expensive SUV's to today's auto market, unfortunately, has muddied the waters a little on how to define a company's "flagship". In a conventional sense, I agree with you that the LS is the flagship, if you simply consider sedans/coupes......in other words, regular passenger cars. But if you look at base and sticker prices (one of the classic indicators of an automaker's heiarchy) you will find that many LX models list for more than their LS cousins. The only real exception, of course, is the LS600H.....that, of course, meets the definition of a "flagship" any way you look at it.

mmarshall

Even over and above the question of whether Acura is a "Tier 1" carmaker (and that issue has been debated in numerous CL threads, so I won't get into that again here), the ZDX is a perfect example of what I was saying just above, in my last post, about how the addition of expensive, upper-level SUVs has muddied the waters on what can and cannot (now) be considered a company's flagship. Some companies now, effectively, have two flagships......an SUV and a sedan. We see this with the Lexus LS/LX, Infiniti M45X/QX56 (though the QX56 will soon be dropped), Acura RL/ZDX, Cadillac STS/Escalade, and Lincoln MKS/Navigator.



Like I said, whether Acura is a Tier 1 automaker or not can be debated, but I wouldn't consider the RL or ZDX to be "downmarket" or "mid-level". They are definitely in the premium/upmarket range, even if (?) not classic luxury vehicles.

IS-SV

Yep, because if you have to tell everybody what your flagship is, because it's not obvious (or nobody cares), then you might have a problem.

IS-SV

Yes, all subjective (no matter what one considers down or mid market) and becoming less important in todays market. A lot of junk in those examples (QX, Nav, STS, 'Slade) or has-beens in the automotive business. Like I said, "who cares" especially when we are talking about the RL selling 100 units/month or the ugly ZDX/zit thing.

mmarshall

Agreed. You are correct. And that, unfortunately, is exactly what a lot of upper-level SUV's have done today.......made it less obvious, or not obvious at all.

Another issue that ties in with this general discussion is the fact that many flagships, today, are becoming less-distinguishable from their lower-line brothers, simply because of the growing amount of equipment that is put into today's vehicles, no matter what their price range. Take power windows/doors/mirrors, for example....once a luxury-car staple. You will find them today in everything but bare-bones $11,000 econoboxes. Same with power steering, brakes, stereo....many, many features, even heated seats.