Nextourer

oh, I was just talking about the title of the thread.

Stormforge

it is reassuring that lexus builds safe vehicles.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Wow, the LX held up remarkably well

IS-SV

Now that looks like a scary scene, really speaks to the safety of modern premium vehicles today.

Last week I witnessed (at a glance) the horrific collision of a ML500 hitting a Saturn Vue, the Saturn driver died. The sound of a deadly crash still rings in my ears, second time I've heard it.

psedog

Just another reason why you shouldn't skimp on cheap vehicles. Thanks for the link.

Threxx

Premium? It also sure helps that the ML is nearly as heavy as a Chevy Tahoe and the Vue is among the lightest SUVs on the road. There's easily a 1000 pound difference there. What would you expect if a Vue and Tahoe collided?

A lot of people in this thread seem to think that having an L or tri pointed star on your hood makes you safer. The people in the GX were no safer than if they were in a 4runner unless than GX has more airbags and even then I really doubt that make much of a difference.

IS-SV

Premium yes=ML. I have a lot more confidence in the safety aspects of a Mercedes SUV over any Saturn SUV in the last decade.

btw, a current gen ML weighs about 400-500 pounds less than a Tahoe, I used to own one.

But the point is the premium vehicles (Benz, BMW, Lexus) all are substantial/heavy (as you pointed out) with expected good safety ratings and good real-world safety records too.

Threxx

The difference is as little as 150-250 pounds if comparing a 2WD Tahoe to the ML diesel or AMG model. Regardless, the ML is about 1000 pounds heavier than the Vue.

My point here is that having a luxury badge on your vehicle doesn't make it safe to assume you're safer than a vehicle without a luxury badge. That much should be incredibly obvious but to some in this thread (possibly you included?) it seems to be a point ignored. The ML has excellent crash test ratings... 5 stars all around... and so does the Vue... or at least the current gen... not sure about the previous gen.

IS-SV

Yes, you can compare the heaviest ML that only 25% of the people buy to the lightest 2WD Tahoe that only 20% of the people buy for some distorted weight comparison.

Of course the badge means nothing from a safety aspect alone and I have not ignored that point. The weight and safety design of the vehicle(s) mentioned are important. 5 stars is great, if you are in a collision with a vehicle of similar size and weight supposedly.

But you are missing the point of premium cars that deliver a balance of lux/performance/safety intentionally. Notice how BMW/Lexus/Mercedes have no flimsy vehicles like the Saturn Vue (as an example) in their US lineup.

Threxx

I'm not sure what flimsy means. Can you quantify that?

IS-SV

I haven't seen the autopsy of the dead guy in the Vue which might shed more light on the "flimsy" aspect and I doubt it will become public record for our review.

Threxx

Because a guy died that means the car he was in was "flimsy"? Interesting assumption.

IS-SV

The dead guy might find it to be less interesting.

Threxx

This is your strategy in this discussion? When logic and numbers no longer serve your point you play with subjective meaningless words like flimsy and keep talking about a guy that died for any number of reasons which we have no way of knowing.

My point is very simply don't look at the badge, look at crash test results. There are people in this thread who would seem to believe that a GX is significantly more safe than a 4runner because it's a "premium" vehicle.

Your point is... well... you seem to be lacking one right now other than that luxury brands tend to build "less flimsy" vehicles.

On average are luxury brand vehicles going to have better crash test results? Probably so... luxury brands tend to stick with mid to large sized vehicles and tend to include more airbags as standard equipment. But to assume that a three pointed star on a vehicle means you're safer than a guy in a Toyota, Ford, or Chevy is just dumb.

IS-SV

No strategy, just the facts. My point is that the premium brands (BMW/Lex/Benz) have chosen to sell in the US market only vehicles with above average safety ratings and records and yes they are on the heavy side.

I agree the GX is essentially rebodied 4runner and your point about the badge.

Not sure what your problem is today. We should both be glad we are not the dead guy in the Vue.