Some Lexus tidbits
10-28-09 | 07:00 PM
#32
Super Moderator
+1 Agree 100%
I actually think that this car has the potential to be the real game changer for Lexus. If they can come with a true mid-size sports sedan a la the M5/E63/RS6 they will firmly establish themselves as a true Tier 1 brand. This is currently the most glaring gap in the Lexus line up.
I actually think that this car has the potential to be the real game changer for Lexus. If they can come with a true mid-size sports sedan a la the M5/E63/RS6 they will firmly establish themselves as a true Tier 1 brand. This is currently the most glaring gap in the Lexus line up.
10-28-09 | 07:28 PM
#33
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: A better place
The news about the 4GS is a little worrysome to me because Lexus people have a very different view of "badass" or "beautiful" than most....I would know, I have worked with many of them on and off through the years. They think the GS is a sport sedan because Lexus advertises it as such, not because they know so. Many of them will also tell you that the HS is beautiful, so I don't really know how to interpret their comments on the GS.
If I heard these people say, "HOLY CHIT! THAT'S A GS?!?!" I would know that Lexus was on the right track. At least they didn't say it was ugly.
Yeah, the LFA is "badass" and so is the IS F but many of those people just have a different view of Lexus than we do. They look at the car and think, "Man we are going to sell a ton of these!" whereas most of us would think, "How much HP does it have? Torque? Weight? Suspension?". Also hearing that they think the 3GS has been strong but overlooked is another concern. The car, all truth be told, is really not that strong. They need to look at the 3GS and admit their mistakes and set out to build something that is wholly better and more advanced. I hope that is what they have done, rather than just think, "Oh, we had it right with the 3GS so let's not change much...we just need to advertise more." That would be a disaster.
Also, Lexus needs to have some sort of plan for the SC because AFAIK the car is due in 2012. Three years out with nothing on the drawing board is not a good sign...
If I heard these people say, "HOLY CHIT! THAT'S A GS?!?!" I would know that Lexus was on the right track. At least they didn't say it was ugly.
Yeah, the LFA is "badass" and so is the IS F but many of those people just have a different view of Lexus than we do. They look at the car and think, "Man we are going to sell a ton of these!" whereas most of us would think, "How much HP does it have? Torque? Weight? Suspension?". Also hearing that they think the 3GS has been strong but overlooked is another concern. The car, all truth be told, is really not that strong. They need to look at the 3GS and admit their mistakes and set out to build something that is wholly better and more advanced. I hope that is what they have done, rather than just think, "Oh, we had it right with the 3GS so let's not change much...we just need to advertise more." That would be a disaster.
Also, Lexus needs to have some sort of plan for the SC because AFAIK the car is due in 2012. Three years out with nothing on the drawing board is not a good sign...
It matters quite a bit in terms of *who* was throwing around the term "beautiful" with regards to the 4GS. If it was Akio Toyoda himself, then there is lots of hope. If it was Lexus PR people, it's hard to say.
Besides, the 3GS is no ugly duckling. It was (and still is) one of the better-looking sedans in it's class. It has aged very well.
From SICK's comments, it sounds like Lexus engineers *know* the 4GS is bad-***, and it sounds like it's not just PR talk.
I think Lexus knows the faults of the 3GS and hopefully improved them for the 4GS.
. We just don't know exactly what F products are coming (yet). , or it won't be used? I'm sure the knowledge they gained with aluminum will be seen in future projects however.+1 Agree 100%
I actually think that this car has the potential to be the real game changer for Lexus. If they can come with a true mid-size sports sedan a la the M5/E63/RS6 they will firmly establish themselves as a true Tier 1 brand. This is currently the most glaring gap in the Lexus line up.
I actually think that this car has the potential to be the real game changer for Lexus. If they can come with a true mid-size sports sedan a la the M5/E63/RS6 they will firmly establish themselves as a true Tier 1 brand. This is currently the most glaring gap in the Lexus line up.
10-28-09 | 08:15 PM
#35
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: A better place
10-28-09 | 08:23 PM
#37
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: A better place
10-28-09 | 08:31 PM
#39
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: A better place
. It's going to be a LONG wait, or maybe not. Lexus might premiere the car early and release it to market many months later.
10-28-09 | 10:14 PM
#40
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (3)
You have to differentiate who "they" are. Was it Lexus product engineers, or Lexus people in Japan who still think of the GS as "badass" or is "they" in this case US PR people and dealership staff?
It matters quite a bit in terms of *who* was throwing around the term "beautiful" with regards to the 4GS. If it was Akio Toyoda himself, then there is lots of hope. If it was Lexus PR people, it's hard to say.
It matters quite a bit in terms of *who* was throwing around the term "beautiful" with regards to the 4GS. If it was Akio Toyoda himself, then there is lots of hope. If it was Lexus PR people, it's hard to say.
10-28-09 | 10:53 PM
#41
Indeed, there is a certain amount of hubris that can follow with success...and Lexus has had plenty of it. But they are not infallible, and the GS saga shows it; the 2GS was truly a knockout hit, but kept on the cycle for too long as years wore on; the 1GS was the only Lexus to have to resort to embarrassing fleet sales, and the 3GS is kinda in-between, closer to the 2GS as it still was successful especially at the outset, but not as brilliant.
That being said, I think there is certainly a vocal internal Lexus desire to see the GS saga retuned and refocused for next gen. Some choice quotes:
I've also spoken with Lexus salespersons who have admitted to me that they'd like to see a more competitive GS. Will they deliver? I think they can, but the question is whether they will.
That being said, I think there is certainly a vocal internal Lexus desire to see the GS saga retuned and refocused for next gen. Some choice quotes:
Interview with Stefan Smith, chairman of the Lexus National Dealer Advisory Council
Automotive News, February 10, 2008
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...&rssfeed=rss06
Q: What does the factory need to do to help you sell more vehicles?
A: There are some segments of the market Lexus doesn't compete in as well as we would like. The GS 350 vs. the BMW 5 series — we don't compete that well in that segment. Would we like to? Sure. Do we compete in other segments and have an advantage? Yes, we do.
You'd like to have cars that are great in every segment, but you can't be everything to everybody.
Automotive News, February 10, 2008
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...&rssfeed=rss06
Q: What does the factory need to do to help you sell more vehicles?
A: There are some segments of the market Lexus doesn't compete in as well as we would like. The GS 350 vs. the BMW 5 series — we don't compete that well in that segment. Would we like to? Sure. Do we compete in other segments and have an advantage? Yes, we do.
You'd like to have cars that are great in every segment, but you can't be everything to everybody.
Lexus GS: Stuck in the Middle
BusinessWeek, July 24, 2009
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/...724_856496.htm
[North American chief Yoshimi] Inaba sees two problems he needs to tackle: First, he says, Toyota has been making too many decisions about new models and designs in Japan. "We are becoming more regionally focused now and pushing decisions down to the places where the vehicles will be sold," he said. To that end, several "global" job titles have been eliminated. Second, he believes Toyota's vehicle designs must be jazzed up. "It's been a fair criticism that our designs do not have enough excitement," he said.
The GS, notes consultant [Jim] Hall [of 2953 Analytics], has been a very good sedan, but it takes on neither the BMW 3 Series nor the Mercedes E Class in size, performance, or price. "It's in the middle and that can be a tough place to be," Hall says. "That car needs to take on one or the other in sales volume for Lexus to grow."
BusinessWeek, July 24, 2009
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/...724_856496.htm
[North American chief Yoshimi] Inaba sees two problems he needs to tackle: First, he says, Toyota has been making too many decisions about new models and designs in Japan. "We are becoming more regionally focused now and pushing decisions down to the places where the vehicles will be sold," he said. To that end, several "global" job titles have been eliminated. Second, he believes Toyota's vehicle designs must be jazzed up. "It's been a fair criticism that our designs do not have enough excitement," he said.
The GS, notes consultant [Jim] Hall [of 2953 Analytics], has been a very good sedan, but it takes on neither the BMW 3 Series nor the Mercedes E Class in size, performance, or price. "It's in the middle and that can be a tough place to be," Hall says. "That car needs to take on one or the other in sales volume for Lexus to grow."
10-29-09 | 07:10 AM
#42
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: A better place
My guess is that the car was shown at this year's product meeting so "they" would be dealer reps and sales managers, not engineers. Even then, one thing you quickly pick up on is that even though Lexus is very keen and aware, it's still a company that dances completely to it's own tune. They have obviously let their hair down with products like the IS F and LFA but the culture is still very rigid. They build cars how THEY want and truly believe that THEY know best which means they have a tendency to ignore the competition. With this generation of the GS, they were clearly caught with their pants down so I hope they pay more attention the next time around.
You're right they do build cars how they want, but at the same time they are VERY aware of what customers say and what the competition is doing. This is not Honda we're talking about here.Toyota has a great reputation for being paranoid about the competition and to responding very well to customer's needs and feedback; the Lexus brand is no exception.
All car makers to an extent build cars how *they* want. That's a pretty obvious point. The difference is that some car makers are very keen and aware of their own customers and the competition, while other car makers completely ignore their customers and/or competition.
Toyota has a long history of learning from it's mistakes and shortcomings, and improving upon them. IMHO the chances are good that the 4GS will deliver.
10-29-09 | 02:13 PM
#43
Lexus Connoisseur
10-29-09 | 02:27 PM
#44
-GS is already as big as it needs to be IMO. It doesn't need to get bigger, it just needs to get better. Seriously... if the GS is going to continue to be marketed as a mid-tier sport/luxury sedan, I really don't think buyers in that segment get into the current GS and say "man I wish this thing had more leg room". Leave that to the ES and LS buyers or else just give up on the GS = sporty mentality.
-I thought I had just remembered wrong when I saw the LFA's current list price. I kept thinking "wasn't it supposed to be in the Audi R8 range?". Guess I wasn't imagining things.
-HS was really close to appealing to me. I ended up disliking the exterior style (interior is nice though) and being a bit disappointed in the MPG. Otherwise it really was a big blip on my radar over the last year. I can see how it would attract a new sort of buyer as before the HS Lexus really didn't offer any vehicle I was considering this most recent round of car shopping.
-I thought I had just remembered wrong when I saw the LFA's current list price. I kept thinking "wasn't it supposed to be in the Audi R8 range?". Guess I wasn't imagining things.
-HS was really close to appealing to me. I ended up disliking the exterior style (interior is nice though) and being a bit disappointed in the MPG. Otherwise it really was a big blip on my radar over the last year. I can see how it would attract a new sort of buyer as before the HS Lexus really didn't offer any vehicle I was considering this most recent round of car shopping.
10-29-09 | 02:34 PM
#45
