Stormforge

2010 Porsche Burmester stereo

An audio system that normally costs more than the Porsche it comes in

September 18th 2009, by Michael La Fave

At under $10,000 the Burmester audio upgrade in the new 2010 Panamera is the best deal going. You get one of the world’s greatest names in audiophile sound reproduction at a fraction of the cost of one of their regular home systems. They even throw in a Panamera to carry it around.

Car guys typically have a few interests in common outside of their rides. After cars, many car guys are into watches. It’s likely the fact that a nice watch is hewn from steel, titanium or gold and its inner workings are stuffed with gears, springs and shiny metal bits. All things that make the car geeks mind go all fuzzy and blissful. The best watches of course have mechanical movements or automatic movements. They require service and care and are nowhere near as accurate as a $20 Quartz Casio. It doesn’t matter.

Next to watches I’d have to say high-end audio is more than a passing preoccupation for a great number of the car guys I know. Perhaps it’s no coincidence then that the in-car audio options in all segments of the automotive marketplace are vastly superior to what they were a decade ago. Credit likely has to go to Lexus for introducing an optional Nakamichi sound system in the LS400 in 1992. Everyone is in on the game now. Even low end cars like the Lancer benefiting from Rockford Fosgate right up to Audi with their audacious $11,000 Bang & Olufsen system available in the A8.

Porsche has taken it a step further. Not with their Burmester system’s price which is $5,440-$7,750 depending on which model you chose to put it in. Yes, that’s right. The system costs more on a Panamera S than a Panamera Turbo. Why? Because they can. Admittedly there is a Bose surround system that is optional on lesser model and standard on the Turbo. It’s cost is roughly the difference.

They’ve taken it further than their competitors, however, as Burmester is about as exotic a name in home audio as there is. Automotive audio too as they also happen to be the name on the Bugatti Veyron’s stereo system which is rumoured to have $30,000 in componentry alone.

Anyways, back to the Burmester system in the Panamera. If you haven’t heard of them before that’s likely because you can’t afford anything they make. Until now that is. This high-end surround-sound system has 16 individually-powered speakers including a 10-inch subwoofer with an integrated amplifier and a total power output of more than 1000 Watts. If you like numbers then you are going to be really impressed by 2400 square centimetres of speaker cone area – a record in a production car. The 16-channel amplifier has a Class-D digital amplifier rating which they tell us is a good thing. Directly from the press material; “Air-Motion-Transformer (AMT) technology makes a natural, rich spatial sound with a consistent volume level possible.” It’s true.

Much of the electronics, as well as the tweeter ribbons, are lifted directly from Burmester home audio products. The software, naturally, is new and it allows for the sound to be tailored to each seating position as well as suppressions of ambient cabin noise which is saying a lot considering the muscle car roar of the Panamera’s V8 engines. Total system weight is a remarkably light 12kg. Less in fact than the lunch a Panamera owner is likely to eat.

The specs, however, don’t tell the whole story. The final performance of the system goes beyond Watts and speaker count to reflect a five-year engineering process that saw the Burmester team’s requirements implemented into the earliest engineering stages of the Panamera’s structural and interior design. Like all truly fine audio systems the Burmester system in the Panamera can play rock very, very loud but also deliver the nuanced detail of a violin or the shrill of trumpet. It is a system that can actually make the hairs on the back or your neck stand up and it’s performance, from an audiophile’s perspective, is consistent with the Panamera’s performance as a $120,000+ luxury sport sedan.

link: http://autos.sympatico.ca/features/1...rmester-stereo

rominl

iTrader: (4)

very interesting! definitely waiting for more in depth review of the system. so i guess the lexus ml reference systems are meeting some competitions

Threxx

Both Burmester and Mark Levinson seem like they're "sell outs" to me. Granted Levinson literally did sell out to Harmon. In both cases they're not putting components into these cars worthy of their home audio reputation.

I mean if you need proof, as far as I'm aware, Burmester doesn't sell a single individual component of audio equipment that retails for less than the entire system price inside the Panamera. They sell CD players for 50 grand. Don't tell me a complete 16 speaker system with media player, sound processing, amplification, etc is anywhere near on par with anything they sell for the house.

IMO they're whoring out their name... and IMO that means despite the fancy name on this system, I'm not going to be impressed until I hear it.

I bet it won't come close to touching my home system... Paradigm Signature v2 speakers w/ Emotiva amp... despite the fact that my entire audio system's MSRP would be lucky to equal the MSRP of a single piece of Burmester home audio equipment.

FisforFast

I personally would not pay $10,000 for an in-car audio system... I find it rather pointless. I'd rather take that $10,000 and buy an awesome home theatre.

TRDFantasy

Indeed. Although in the LFA, the 12 speaker system there uses a Class-D amplifier. I would expect future Lexus models to get better ML systems considering the competition. In fact, I expect the next-gen LS at the very least to get a Class-D amplifier, if not other next-gen Lexus models.

Designing and tuning the acoustics and equipment for a home compared to a car interior is completely different.

At the same time, both Burmester and Mark Levinson would not want to tarnish their names, because as you say they DO sell some super-high-end home audio and studio equipment.

Therefore, their in-car systems that are offered must be extremely high quality, otherwise it would tarnish their name and reputation, as well as their super-high-end products.

No, I'm sure the Panamera system does not equal the best of what they offer for the home, but it doesn't have to. Designing and tuning for a car interior is much easier than for a home.

Threxx

Having heard the Levinson system in an LS430 I can tell you first hand it's not even in the same universe as their home equipment. Granted it was very very good for a car system and maybe that's just a limitation of being in a car or a limitation of them probably needing to keep the cost of the system under a pretty low budget mark, but still, it's not even in the same ball park as their home stuff. It DOES tarnish their name IMO which is why I'm saying they're selling out.

You might say for the audio manufacturer designing for a home is easier than for a car because aside from auto-tuning sound processors and similar processing related devices such as active subs, home audio equipment such as speakers, amps, and sources aren't designed for your environment... that's something you have to do after buying everything and putting it in place... you are the tuner, not them.

LexFather

GB?

Check out the flashdrive

TRDFantasy

An LS430? How old is that model exactly? Your argument would be more convincing if you had said you thoroughly heard the Reference Mark Levinson 19 speaker system in the current LS460/LS600hL. I have heard this system personally. To be honest, I've only heard low-end and mid-range ML home products, but IMHO the 19 speaker Reference system which is the flagship ML Lexus system is not that far-off from low-end and mid-range ML home equipment.

Their name is tarnished? Interesting, because I have talked to, and heard many audiophiles saying they were thoroughly impressed with the top ML systems they have heard in various Lexus cars, namely the IS and LS systems. Some of these audiophiles have ML home equipment.

I am certainly no audiophile, so I'm sure they know more what they're talking about than I do.

AFAIK, home equipment is typically designed for higher output, and to push more air since any home interior is going to be larger in terms of volume of air than a car interior, and more expansive in terms of acoustics. That also means in terms of air volume and acoustics, there is a limit to how good things can sound in a car interior, compared to a home, compared to say a large hall. Therefore, there is a limit in terms of how good of a design or acoustic setup a car system can have, compared to a home system. Indirectly, that means a car system can never cost equal to, or more than a home system, all other things like quality of components being equal.

Another to keep in mind is that Mark Levinson achieves incredible economies of scale with their Lexus systems compared to their home equipment, which I am sure helps with lowering the cost per unit.

Threxx

What exactly does that change from the fact that, as I said, Mark Levinson put their name on it, and it's not up to snuff?

I haven't heard the LS460's system at more than moderate volumes and never have been able to demo any decent source material, so I can't comment on that but the LS430's system which very much prominently features the ML name, does not IMO live up to the name.

The fact that you're calling ML equipment a range of low, mid, and high end pretty much gives away that you've either never actually heard ML home equipment, or if you did you really had no idea what you were listening to. It could have been extremely dated. Historically speaking ML has pretty steadily adhered to a fairly narrow price range with its equipment. It's not like you're going to see one multichannel amp for 2 grand and one for 50 grand (like with some brands). About the most variation you'll typically see from 'entry level' to 'upper level' is 50% and it's usually all of roughly the same quality... just beefier specs in the more expensive models.

Not to mention if you're not an audiophile you probably shouldn't be trying to judge the sound of an amp or source anyway, especially if you aren't able to compare one amp side by side with another using the same speakers as a reference. Basically whether or not you heard an ML amp or source, it's unlikely you were able to judge it effectively.

I bet if you asked any TRUE audiophile (not just one who appears to you to be one because you aren't one at all) they'd tell you it's impressive for a car system (and it is!) but still nowhere near ML's home equipment. But seriously like I've been saying, I don't EXPECT it to be because nobody is going to pay 50 grand for an in-car audio system in their 70k dollar LS460. My point is not that Lexus should be using a better audio system. Their system is fine, if not impressive. My point is that people focus too much on brand names, as the article in the original post which raves on and on about the Burmester name, illustrates for me perfectly.

Eh... kind of true, but not entirely. Like you said, you're not into audio. But none of this addresses what you quoted me saying either so I'm not sure what you were trying to say in reply to what I said.

I'm sure they do. They could achieve incredible economies of scale if they started selling amps for a grand a piece instead of 15 grand a pop. But then again that's why Harmon makes JBL, H/K, and Infinity. They could achieve those same economies of scale and have results and prices that were much better suited to the name if they used the H/K name.

TRDFantasy

Again, a car system will *never* sound as good as a super-high-end home system. Those are facts due to the differences in acoustics and air volume of a car interior versus a home.

The ML home stuff I heard is roughly 10-12 years old. Also I'm not sure what you're talking about, but I meant "low, mid and high end" in terms of the price ranges for ML audio equipment as well their positioning in their lineup. I would love to see you say to some real true audiophiles that no such thing as low, mid, and high-end exists for ML home equipment . I think the lowest-priced ML home stuff starts at slightly under 10K, and can go to well over 35K. That is quite a large price range, and I'm sure the 10K stuff is not the same in terms of quality or design compared to the flagship stuff.

Threxx

It's not just a limitation of the environment though... it's a limitation of the budget they've got to work with. Let me pull a ML amp out of an LS460 for you and put it next to one of their home amps... take the cover off both and let you see what a ridiculous difference there is in the build quality, components used, weight, and other more technical aspects of the design, even though they're completely different styles of amps, the difference will be dramatic.

The fact is you're telling me that you're not an audiophile and yet you're also telling me that the quality of the system in the LS460 was sufficient for the ML name based on your observations from listening to a 10-12 year old ML source and/or amp in somebody's house. As I've said, it's hard even for audiophiles to judge amp and source quality without using a reference system and I really really doubt you sat there while somebody swapped amps and let you observe the differences between one amp and another amp. If all you listened to was the ML amp/source then you really have no idea what part of what you were hearing was the speakers and what part of what you were hearing was the amp.

I forgot how much you like to argue about stuff you have no clue about... you need to just drop this. Your opinion on ML home equipment is invalid based on what you've told me. Talk all you want about how the LS460's system sounds to you but please don't tell me you have formed an educated opinion of ML's home components.

TRDFantasy

I never said that, talk about putting words into my mouth .

Threxx

You said:

Let's approach this logically.

-You say you've heard the LS460's system.

-You say you've heard "low-end and mid-range ML home equipment"

-You say the LS460's system is "not that far off" from the ML Home equipment you heard.


So either you're doing one of two things here:
1 - You're claiming to have a worthwhile opinion of how the ML home equipment sounds. (We've already established this isn't possible)

2 - You're not claiming to have a worthwhile opinion of how the ML home equipment sounds, and yet you're arguing about how it compares to the LS460's system anyway. (We've already established you have a history of doing this)

Which is it?

LIMS407

i dont care if it has plasma tv, i wouldnt drive this station wagon...saw the car over the weekends and rear looks horrific and it has like 40 buttons in the front and back...

TRDFantasy

I also stated I am NOT an audiophile. I merely stated my opinion. I did not state an educated opinion in any way, since I already admitted I do not have the expertise to make an educated opinion.