October 2009 Official Sales Thread
11-14-09, 10:26 AM
#122
Moderator
11-14-09, 10:45 AM
#123
Indeed, IMO an ES 450h is a no-brainer...
...and interesting reports from the speculative angle; we've had talk about Audi taking share from BMW and MB, and also about a possible reordering of #1 and #2....how about #2 and #3?
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=afY26C6kX3a0
...and interesting reports from the speculative angle; we've had talk about Audi taking share from BMW and MB, and also about a possible reordering of #1 and #2....how about #2 and #3?
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=afY26C6kX3a0
Daimler Sees ‘Possibility’ of Overtaking BMW in U.S. (Update2)
By Mike Ramsey and Chris Reiter
Nov. 12 (Bloomberg) -- Daimler AG said its Mercedes-Benz brand may be able to overtake Bayerische Motoren Werke AG for second place in luxury-auto sales in the U.S. and in China.
“That is a possibility,” Chief Executive Officer Dieter Zetsche said today in a Bloomberg Television interview. Toyota Motor Corp.’s Lexus is the top-selling luxury line in the U.S., while Volkswagen AG’s Audi leads the segment in China.
Daimler is pursuing Munich-based BMW to add sales in the world’s two largest auto markets. The Stuttgart, Germany-based automaker will add manufacturing capacity in China to keep pace with deliveries, Zetsche said in a separate Bloomberg News interview in New York.
“We are in reach of BMW and obviously we are moving closer to Audi,” said Zetsche, 56. “We will add capacity as needed to support growth demands.”
U.S. sales of Mercedes autos through October totaled 153,713, trailing the BMW brand’s 160,666, according to industry researcher Autodata Corp. of Woodcliff Lake, New Jersey. Daimler reported selling 50,700 Mercedes vehicles in China through October, while BMW posted sales of 71,952.
“The current and future relevance of the market can hardly be overstated,” Zetsche said of China in a Webcast today.
Slumping demand in Europe and in the U.S., where sales fell in February to the slowest annualized rate in 27 years, has accelerated a shift in automakers’ focus to emerging markets, he said yesterday.
‘Emotion’ for Chrysler
The Daimler chief said that “I still have a lot of emotion” for Chrysler Group LLC, which he headed when it was part of DaimlerChrysler AG.
The German company under Zetsche sold Chrysler to Cerberus Capital Management LP in August 2007 and gave up its remaining 19.9 percent stake in the U.S. automaker on April 27 of this year, three days before Chrysler filed for bankruptcy. The U.S. company exited court protection on June 10, controlled by Fiat SpA under a government-aided reorganization.
Zetsche said Chrysler should avoid focusing too much on small cars at the expense of sport-utility vehicles and pickup trucks, which along with minivans account for a majority of the Auburn Hills, Michigan-based automaker’s sales.
Daimler is studying whether to shift some production of the Mercedes C-Class entry-level sedan to its Tuscaloosa, Alabama, plant, Zetsche said in the Webcast. The C-Class is the company’s best-selling model in the U.S.
He said building some of the cars in the U.S. might protect against the rise in the value of the euro against the dollar, which pushes up the cost of Europe-produced vehicles in U.S. currency.
In the television interview, Zetsche said he thinks General Motors Co.’s Opel has a better chance for survival as a unit of the U.S. automaker than it would have under Canadian car-parts maker Magna International Inc.
The Detroit-based company said on Nov. 3 that its board decided to keep the German unit rather than sell a majority stake to Magna and Russian partner OAO Sberbank.
To contact the reporters on this story: Mike Ramsey in New York at mramsey6@bloomberg.net; Chris Reiter in Berlin at creiter2@bloomberg.net
Last Updated: November 12, 2009 14:35 EST
By Mike Ramsey and Chris Reiter
Nov. 12 (Bloomberg) -- Daimler AG said its Mercedes-Benz brand may be able to overtake Bayerische Motoren Werke AG for second place in luxury-auto sales in the U.S. and in China.
“That is a possibility,” Chief Executive Officer Dieter Zetsche said today in a Bloomberg Television interview. Toyota Motor Corp.’s Lexus is the top-selling luxury line in the U.S., while Volkswagen AG’s Audi leads the segment in China.
Daimler is pursuing Munich-based BMW to add sales in the world’s two largest auto markets. The Stuttgart, Germany-based automaker will add manufacturing capacity in China to keep pace with deliveries, Zetsche said in a separate Bloomberg News interview in New York.
“We are in reach of BMW and obviously we are moving closer to Audi,” said Zetsche, 56. “We will add capacity as needed to support growth demands.”
U.S. sales of Mercedes autos through October totaled 153,713, trailing the BMW brand’s 160,666, according to industry researcher Autodata Corp. of Woodcliff Lake, New Jersey. Daimler reported selling 50,700 Mercedes vehicles in China through October, while BMW posted sales of 71,952.
“The current and future relevance of the market can hardly be overstated,” Zetsche said of China in a Webcast today.
Slumping demand in Europe and in the U.S., where sales fell in February to the slowest annualized rate in 27 years, has accelerated a shift in automakers’ focus to emerging markets, he said yesterday.
‘Emotion’ for Chrysler
The Daimler chief said that “I still have a lot of emotion” for Chrysler Group LLC, which he headed when it was part of DaimlerChrysler AG.
The German company under Zetsche sold Chrysler to Cerberus Capital Management LP in August 2007 and gave up its remaining 19.9 percent stake in the U.S. automaker on April 27 of this year, three days before Chrysler filed for bankruptcy. The U.S. company exited court protection on June 10, controlled by Fiat SpA under a government-aided reorganization.
Zetsche said Chrysler should avoid focusing too much on small cars at the expense of sport-utility vehicles and pickup trucks, which along with minivans account for a majority of the Auburn Hills, Michigan-based automaker’s sales.
Daimler is studying whether to shift some production of the Mercedes C-Class entry-level sedan to its Tuscaloosa, Alabama, plant, Zetsche said in the Webcast. The C-Class is the company’s best-selling model in the U.S.
He said building some of the cars in the U.S. might protect against the rise in the value of the euro against the dollar, which pushes up the cost of Europe-produced vehicles in U.S. currency.
In the television interview, Zetsche said he thinks General Motors Co.’s Opel has a better chance for survival as a unit of the U.S. automaker than it would have under Canadian car-parts maker Magna International Inc.
The Detroit-based company said on Nov. 3 that its board decided to keep the German unit rather than sell a majority stake to Magna and Russian partner OAO Sberbank.
To contact the reporters on this story: Mike Ramsey in New York at mramsey6@bloomberg.net; Chris Reiter in Berlin at creiter2@bloomberg.net
Last Updated: November 12, 2009 14:35 EST
11-14-09, 10:11 PM
#124
Guest
Posts: n/a
Thanks dude....I think its possible...the new 7 hasn't done well nor the new Z4..with the 5 being at its last year and the 3, 6, X5 aging, Benz could be #2 not really b/c they are outselling a strong BMW, but a weaker one. The X1 arrives late too, the X6 sells poorly/niche and the 5 GT thing is another small niche seller.
Benz has gotten very aggressive with leases and financing rates too. The new E is doing well, the C class is really holding strong and the ML is a strong player still. I love the fact they have tons of coupes but they are not selling well and are all niche sales players anyway.
2010 could look VERY different than sales the past decade
1. Lexus
2. Benz
3. BMW
4. Buick
5. Caddy
6. Acura
7. Lincoln
8. Infiniti
9. Volvo
99. Saab
Benz has gotten very aggressive with leases and financing rates too. The new E is doing well, the C class is really holding strong and the ML is a strong player still. I love the fact they have tons of coupes but they are not selling well and are all niche sales players anyway.
2010 could look VERY different than sales the past decade
1. Lexus
2. Benz
3. BMW
4. Buick
5. Caddy
6. Acura
7. Lincoln
8. Infiniti
9. Volvo
99. Saab
11-16-09, 01:10 PM
#125
The fourth Gen GS may appear late 2010, for sale early 2011, as a MY2012. Won't help with 2010 numbers...
11-16-09, 01:24 PM
#126
Indeed, that is the question given how 2008 went with no new Lexus debuts, and it was a close race (but not as close as earlier this year). The sales pattern for the 3RX, 1HS after a year, and the 2IS, 5ES, 4LS refreshes remains to be seen.
Speaking of comparisons amidst a tough economy, here are luxury sales in Japan, YTD:
October 2009 YTD
Mercedes-Benz 23,388
BMW 22,724
Lexus 19,701
Audi 12,688
Speaking of comparisons amidst a tough economy, here are luxury sales in Japan, YTD:
October 2009 YTD
Mercedes-Benz 23,388
BMW 22,724
Lexus 19,701
Audi 12,688
Last edited by encore888; 11-16-09 at 02:57 PM. Reason: date
11-16-09, 03:00 PM
#128
Japan Automobile Importers Association
October 2009 YTD Japan
Mercedes-Benz 23,388
BMW 22,724
Audi 12,688
Lexus Japan sales are here:
Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association, Inc. (select "New Registrations-Sales" / "Type/Manufacturer")
October 2009 YTD Japan
Lexus 19,701
Last edited by encore888; 11-16-09 at 03:07 PM. Reason: url
11-16-09, 04:36 PM
#129
Moderator
2010 will definitely be a tough year just like 2009. I am optimistic and hope that it might be a little better than 2009 but we'll have to wait and see.
Lexus should be fine in 2010. With the recent debut of the production verison of the LFA this will bring much attention to Lexus and hopefully people will notice and purchase more Lexus vehicles than usual.
We all know the 2010 GX 460 is coming and that will contribute to the 2010 sales numbers. I believe the CT 300/400h might come to the U.S. and that also will increase Lexus hybrid sales numbers. The ES 350 will do fine with the mid-cycle refresh and the IS line should do well also. 4GS won't be out yet as well as the GS F. The HS250h and RX line will also do well. Hopefully a 3SC will come soon too...
Lexus should be fine in 2010. With the recent debut of the production verison of the LFA this will bring much attention to Lexus and hopefully people will notice and purchase more Lexus vehicles than usual.
We all know the 2010 GX 460 is coming and that will contribute to the 2010 sales numbers. I believe the CT 300/400h might come to the U.S. and that also will increase Lexus hybrid sales numbers. The ES 350 will do fine with the mid-cycle refresh and the IS line should do well also. 4GS won't be out yet as well as the GS F. The HS250h and RX line will also do well. Hopefully a 3SC will come soon too...
Last edited by Trexus; 11-16-09 at 07:17 PM.
11-16-09, 04:46 PM
#130
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Thanks dude....I think its possible...the new 7 hasn't done well nor the new Z4..with the 5 being at its last year and the 3, 6, X5 aging, Benz could be #2 not really b/c they are outselling a strong BMW, but a weaker one. The X1 arrives late too, the X6 sells poorly/niche and the 5 GT thing is another small niche seller.
Benz has gotten very aggressive with leases and financing rates too. The new E is doing well, the C class is really holding strong and the ML is a strong player still. I love the fact they have tons of coupes but they are not selling well and are all niche sales players anyway.
2010 could look VERY different than sales the past decade
1. Lexus
2. Benz
3. BMW
4. Buick
5. Caddy
6. Acura
7. Lincoln
8. Infiniti
9. Volvo
99. Saab
Benz has gotten very aggressive with leases and financing rates too. The new E is doing well, the C class is really holding strong and the ML is a strong player still. I love the fact they have tons of coupes but they are not selling well and are all niche sales players anyway.
2010 could look VERY different than sales the past decade
1. Lexus
2. Benz
3. BMW
4. Buick
5. Caddy
6. Acura
7. Lincoln
8. Infiniti
9. Volvo
99. Saab
But otherwise I think that list is a very probable picture of next years sales rankings.
11-16-09, 06:16 PM
#131
Moderator
Looking at 2010 again. Lexus entry level vehicles will hold up most of the sales figures.
ES 350
IS 250/250 C
IS 350/350 C
IS F
HS 250h
RX 350/450h
The ES 350 will do well now that it has had a refresh. I'm surprised the IS line hasn't sold more than the ES but I'm sure one day the IS will sell more than the ES. The HS will sell well and the RX is the big dog of entry level luxury SUV's.
Lexus should also bring in an ES 450h to complete the ES line.
ES 350
IS 250/250 C
IS 350/350 C
IS F
HS 250h
RX 350/450h
The ES 350 will do well now that it has had a refresh. I'm surprised the IS line hasn't sold more than the ES but I'm sure one day the IS will sell more than the ES. The HS will sell well and the RX is the big dog of entry level luxury SUV's.
Lexus should also bring in an ES 450h to complete the ES line.
11-16-09, 06:28 PM
#132
Interesting projections, and they could be on the money, but Lexus naturally plays its cards close to the vest. For 2010, there could be a sales challenge from the new 5-series, in the manner that the new E-Class has lifted MB sales. On the Lexus front, I think that the GX 460 will contribute to increased sales, but whether that is on the order of say 120% of the LX 570 intro or higher I don't know (depends on the trends of the large SUV market). The LFA and the IS-F remain niche models which will have little overall effect on the sales race (but will and do have major effects on image). I am also not expecting the CT 300h until at least 2011, if it comes stateside at all.
As for the ES vs. IS, I do think that the IS Line does have the potential to outsell the ES 350 eventually, perhaps as early as the 3IS. There are some challenges there though--namely size (value), where the ES offers > GS room for a < GS price, while the IS is tighter than the 3 in the back; brand attributes (Lexus' traditional strength is Luxury, which is what the ES does, while the IS focuses on Sport). If the 3IS grows in interior room and adds further refinement, plus a standard non-convertible coupe, then it has the chance to exceed the ES Line (unless an ES 400h or ES 450h is built).
At present, on the 2010 front, I expect the trends of 2008 & 2009 to continue, the RX to lead sales, followed by the ES, and IS Lines. The new GX will debut in January 2010 and provide additional sales but at a more niche level for the early part of the year, at least. The new HS also can provide significant sales.
There is little word on the 4GS, but Lexus has a real opportunity here to do what it did with the 1IS => 2IS, make a modest-selling model into one of their top sellers. I think expectations are lower here given the track record + competitors, but for a Tier 1 luxury marque and the market sales leader, Lexus should be able to field a competitor that is much closer to the 5 and E successes. The challenge lies in being sandwiched between the similar-size ES and the superlative LS. But if they can thread the needle at the entry-level market with the IS/HS/ES trio, it may be possible to do the same at the midsize level with the ES/GS/LS. An additional wild card could be a possible 3SC...
As for the ES vs. IS, I do think that the IS Line does have the potential to outsell the ES 350 eventually, perhaps as early as the 3IS. There are some challenges there though--namely size (value), where the ES offers > GS room for a < GS price, while the IS is tighter than the 3 in the back; brand attributes (Lexus' traditional strength is Luxury, which is what the ES does, while the IS focuses on Sport). If the 3IS grows in interior room and adds further refinement, plus a standard non-convertible coupe, then it has the chance to exceed the ES Line (unless an ES 400h or ES 450h is built).
At present, on the 2010 front, I expect the trends of 2008 & 2009 to continue, the RX to lead sales, followed by the ES, and IS Lines. The new GX will debut in January 2010 and provide additional sales but at a more niche level for the early part of the year, at least. The new HS also can provide significant sales.
There is little word on the 4GS, but Lexus has a real opportunity here to do what it did with the 1IS => 2IS, make a modest-selling model into one of their top sellers. I think expectations are lower here given the track record + competitors, but for a Tier 1 luxury marque and the market sales leader, Lexus should be able to field a competitor that is much closer to the 5 and E successes. The challenge lies in being sandwiched between the similar-size ES and the superlative LS. But if they can thread the needle at the entry-level market with the IS/HS/ES trio, it may be possible to do the same at the midsize level with the ES/GS/LS. An additional wild card could be a possible 3SC...
11-28-09, 06:41 PM
#134
Lexus Champion
11-30-09, 10:31 AM
#135
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Definitely aggressive for the marketplace. What was the context of the 5k? Was that the goal when the LaCrosse was being developed back in an up market and up economy? 5k wouldn't be unrealistic in that context. If the sales goal is 5k in the current down market, that's going to be tough. I can see LaCrosse moving at about 4k units a month and peaking at 5-6k in maybe the summer months but not 5k+ a month for the whole year.