LexBob2

It would be interesting to see the difference in profit margins on the two. I bet you're correct that it's better on the ES vs. Camry. Very little incentive dollars used on the ES vs. Camry.

IS-SV

It would be interesting but that level of detail would never be disclosed. I doubt if they even show gross margin by division.

But the unit volume of the Camry continues to impress everybody in the entire industry.

kyang91

iTrader: (5)

I took my GS in for service and a few parts installed and they gave me a brand new 2010 ES350 as loaner. I really have to say that this car is really nice, specially when just cruising at normal speed. And I like how they had changed the exterior just a little bit to sets it apart from the old one.

LexBob2

Yes, the changes for 2010 though cosmetic and to some, minor, are well done and IMO were needed to keep the car competitive with other new models on the market.

superchan7

And to avoid the stigma of a car that's been out for 3.5 years with zero changes. Smaller outside mirrors (2008) don't count.

LexFather

The ES does what it does and has done it well since the 2nd gen in 1992. It has won tons of awards. It has been a consistent seller, tops in class most years for sedans. 17/18 years now.

It is crystal clear Lexus knows what its doing with the ES and people want the ES.

I find it quite amusing the ES gets beat up constantly for being Camry based but people forget the TL is Accord based and the G35 shares a platforms with the Z and in the past the A4 shared platforms with Audi. There is nothing wrong with it when DONE RIGHT.

Milla.... of course this is not directed at you

AlexusAnja

I still can't believe anyone says the ES is a glorified Camry. Surely in the powertrain it's a shared thing, but who can see the mechanicals besides DIY and mechanics. The ES has so much more dampners, sound isolation, etc. that people who say this are full of what falls out a cow's rear end. You can take 100 regular joes/janes, blind fold them, drop them in a Camry then an ES and ask them which is better... all 100 will say ES.

mmarshall

That's because old habits sometimes die hard. It took the public ten years, for instance, to resond to and finally acknowledge Hyundais quality and value. Some Camry buyers may still be living in the past. The latest-generation Camry, of course, is not a bad car by any means, but its EL Cheapo interior hardware, IMO, does not impress like the Camrys of the 1990's. The sheet metal also does not seem as strong. While still on Consumer Reports' Recommended list, they no longer rate Camry at the top of its class like they did for years.

IS-SV

Toyota is not standing still. And the Camry's (and Accord's)positions at the top are very solid. These 2 cars are still at the top of their class with best reliability, best resale value, best levels of refinement, best total cost of ownership, best dealership networks and solid financially-sound companies in their class.

The Accord and Camry are not the cheapest cars, therefore when people plunk down this medium/mid-level amount of money they will tend to make the most financially-sound decision based on more the lowest price and a few substandard ***** since none of the cars in this class have top tier luxury interiors. The superficial opinions of a few about cheapo interiors and sheet metal don't mean much to a majority of the buyers in reality.

Car-buying habits are not to be depended on and Toyota and all the major auto makes know this. The loyalty of owners in the modern era is not expected. None of us have much loyalty to any brand either, look at our car-buying histories, amazing variety.

LexBob2

Yup, it's complicated to gain consumer confidence and then maintain it year after year. It's always a moving target. Most (car) companies strive for it and only a few are able to do it consistently.

mmarshall

According to Consumer Reports, they now rank the Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan above the Camry/Accord in some areas. The 4 cylinder, FWD Fusion/Milan, for example, ranks higher in reliability, though V6s and AWD versions don't fare as well.

Granted, Ford products don't quite (yet) equal Honda/Toyota resale value, but they have the widespread dealer networks you mention, and, of course, as far as being financially sound, Ford didn't take (or need) any government bailout money or a foreign-company take-over like GM and Chrysler.

LexFather

Great post.

IS-SV

I'm well beyond using Consumers Reports exclusively for my car selections. I do use Consumers Reports for good data on reliability only. And even at that CR only ranks those others above in some categories, not all.


Just because Ford doesn't take government money doesn't mean they have a strong balance sheet like Toyota or Honda (in short because Ford doesn't). btw-I'm a Ford insider via family ties, bought my first condo with Ford stock.

IS-SV

And now back to the topic per title, 2010 Lexus ES350.

mmarshall

Agreed. That is also the primary reason I read CR....reliability. I've long-felt it was the best single source.


Toyota just reported a loss, though......first time in many years. There are some signs of them becoming the next GM, although it is too early to make a blanket statement like that. (but I'm not the only one with that opinion)


And, I can assume it did not get foreclosed.