View Poll Results: Place your bets!!!
Ducati Desmosedici RR
13
59.09%
Ferarri 430 Scuderia
4
18.18%
Goat on rollerblades will fly past both...
5
22.73%
Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll
Who will win: Ducati Desmosedici vs Ferrari 430 Scuderia?
11-15-09, 05:16 AM
#17
So that GTR shaved 20-21 seconds off on a 2 mile WET and COLD track from Viper GTS and Ferrari355? I would call that BS.
Go look at any track times of MotoGP vs F1. the bikes put out times that are on par with F1.
Ducati Desmosedici RR has the weight to power ratio around 2lbs per HP WITH 150lbs rider on and F1 car is around is 1.7lbs per HP. GTR would be 7.6lbs per HP.
Go look at any track times of MotoGP vs F1. the bikes put out times that are on par with F1.
Ducati Desmosedici RR has the weight to power ratio around 2lbs per HP WITH 150lbs rider on and F1 car is around is 1.7lbs per HP. GTR would be 7.6lbs per HP.
Freedom Autosport's GTR on street tires. I was there. I, along with Freedom Autosports, rented the track for the whole day.
This picture is from the day car ran a 57 sec, in march, on cold 34 degree semi wet track
I have raced my bike there for 4 years now.
My best times are 1.04 on street tires.
Pros ( AMA and WERA riders) with sticky tires manage it in 1 flat to 1.02. Though the record for a bike is lower.
Look I am not trying to argue with you. Fact is, on most track, a car will destroy a bike. Only time bike has a chance is when the track has minimum turns and is high speed track.
Nelson Ledges, it was a race prep Porsche. I can't recall the exact car, but a guy I know, who holds the record, owns it.
This picture is from the day car ran a 57 sec, in march, on cold 34 degree semi wet track
I have raced my bike there for 4 years now.
My best times are 1.04 on street tires.
Pros ( AMA and WERA riders) with sticky tires manage it in 1 flat to 1.02. Though the record for a bike is lower.
Look I am not trying to argue with you. Fact is, on most track, a car will destroy a bike. Only time bike has a chance is when the track has minimum turns and is high speed track.
Nelson Ledges, it was a race prep Porsche. I can't recall the exact car, but a guy I know, who holds the record, owns it.
11-16-09, 01:50 AM
#18
Lexus Test Driver
A cycle will usually win, especially on a road course. The outright lap record at Laguna Seca for example is held by a MotoGP bike and the "car" lap record is held by a F1 car. For the most part cycles CAN out corner and out brake cars and can usually carry more speed through the turns as well. Hence lower overall lap times.
As an explanation - unlike acceleration, pretty much any vehicle's braking ability is limited only by physics. I can't actually recall ever driving a car in which I was not able to activate ABS or lock the tires. So generally, how fast a car can stop is pretty much determined by weight and available surface area (both wheel contact with ground, and rotor size). While most motorbikes probably lose out a bit in rotor size as well, one need only glance at a motorbike's tires compared to a car's tires to understand how much less contact area the bike has to work with, and this more than makes up for the advantage in weight that a motorbike has.
As an example, my IS-F, despite being a ridiculously heavy sedan and hardly in the upper echelons of performance cars, will stop from 60mph in less space than the Desmosedici. Just food for thought.
11-16-09, 10:37 AM
#19
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So that GTR shaved 20-21 seconds off on a 2 mile WET and COLD track from Viper GTS and Ferrari355? I would call that BS.
Go look at any track times of MotoGP vs F1. the bikes put out times that are on par with F1.
Ducati Desmosedici RR has the weight to power ratio around 2lbs per HP WITH 150lbs rider on and F1 car is around is 1.7lbs per HP. GTR would be 7.6lbs per HP.
Go look at any track times of MotoGP vs F1. the bikes put out times that are on par with F1.
Ducati Desmosedici RR has the weight to power ratio around 2lbs per HP WITH 150lbs rider on and F1 car is around is 1.7lbs per HP. GTR would be 7.6lbs per HP.
It depends what type of track it is. On a longer, high speed track bike may have a chance. But typically, on vast majority of the tracks, cars would dominate.
Mid-Ohio, a World class track...
Indy car times 1:14 Average.
AMA :1.24 (Best) 1:29 average.
Cars can brake better, corner better, and carry much more speed in and through out the turns.
Last edited by Jujharoo; 11-16-09 at 10:47 AM.
11-16-09, 11:07 AM
#20
Yeah exactly. You would need an Indycar or F1 car to top the bike not some GTR with street tires or Ferrari 430. BTW on that same world class track at mid ohio, the best Porsche 911 GT3 RSR from ALMS qualifying lap time was 1:21 and worst Porsche 911 GT3 RSR qualifying lap time was 1:29.4 You would never clock anything near 1:20something at mid-ohio with GTR. The bike will.
Arrr sorry but people like you take the taste out of my mouth. It's really easy to call it BS online.
It depends what type of track it is. On a longer, high speed track bike may have a chance. But typically, on vast majority of the tracks, cars would dominate.
Mid-Ohio, a World class track...
Indy car times 1:14 Average.
AMA :1.24 (Best) 1:29 average.
Cars can brake better, corner better, and carry much more speed in and through out the turns.
It depends what type of track it is. On a longer, high speed track bike may have a chance. But typically, on vast majority of the tracks, cars would dominate.
Mid-Ohio, a World class track...
Indy car times 1:14 Average.
AMA :1.24 (Best) 1:29 average.
Cars can brake better, corner better, and carry much more speed in and through out the turns.
11-16-09, 11:14 AM
#21
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Yeah exactly. You would need an Indycar or F1 car to top the bike not some GTR with street tires or Ferrari 430. BTW on that same world class track at mid ohio, the best Porsche 911 GT3 RSR from ALMS qualifying lap time was 1:21 and worst Porsche 911 GT3 RSR qualifying lap time was 1:29.4 You would never clock anything near 1:20something at mid-ohio with GTR. The bike will.
AMA, Highest level of bike Racing in NA, bikes average the track at around 1:26 to 1:29. Now you're comparing AMA bikes to stock cars?
A GTR has managed that track (mid OH) at 1:??
Stock GTR with 18" tires.
Same driver who one the OLOA last year.
11-16-09, 11:24 AM
#22
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Freedom Autosport's GTR on street tires. I was there. I, along with Freedom Autosports, rented the track for the whole day.
This picture is from the day car ran a 57 sec, in march, on cold 34 degree semi wet track
I have raced my bike there for 4 years now.
My best times are 1.04 on street tires.
Pros ( AMA and WERA riders) with sticky tires manage it in 1 flat to 1.02. Though the record for a bike is lower.
Look I am not trying to argue with you. Fact is, on most track, a car will destroy a bike. Only time bike has a chance is when the track has minimum turns and is high speed track.
Nelson Ledges, it was a race prep Porsche. I can't recall the exact car, but a guy I know, who holds the record, owns it.
This picture is from the day car ran a 57 sec, in march, on cold 34 degree semi wet track
I have raced my bike there for 4 years now.
My best times are 1.04 on street tires.
Pros ( AMA and WERA riders) with sticky tires manage it in 1 flat to 1.02. Though the record for a bike is lower.
Look I am not trying to argue with you. Fact is, on most track, a car will destroy a bike. Only time bike has a chance is when the track has minimum turns and is high speed track.
Nelson Ledges, it was a race prep Porsche. I can't recall the exact car, but a guy I know, who holds the record, owns it.
Nelson's track records:
Open wheeled car - 58.9 - Formula Atlantic
Full-bodied race car - 1:02.6 - GT1 Mustang
Don't know what or who has been under those times though, as Nelson's site only shows SCCA records.
BeaveRun track records:
Open wheeled car - 51.77 - Formula Mazda
Bike - 56.9 - Larry Pegram on a Duc 748
(as of 2007 - can't find anything more recent, but I beleive it has changed since)
Can't find one for a full bodied car, But do know that Freddie Baker held the T1 class record at one point at a low 1:02 in a Porsche GT3
11-16-09, 11:30 AM
#23
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Just curious, where are you located. You know a good bit about both BeaveRun and the Ledges. Both are home tracks for me. Bet we at least know some of the same people.
Nelson's track records:
Open wheeled car - 58.9 - Formula Atlantic
Full-bodied race car - 1:02.6 - GT1 Mustang
Don't know what or who has been under those times though, as Nelson's site only shows SCCA records.
BeaveRun track records:
Open wheeled car - 51.77 - Formula Mazda
Bike - 56.9 - Larry Pegram on a Duc 748
(as of 2007 - can't find anything more recent, but I beleive it has changed since)
Can't find one for a full bodied car, But do know that Freddie Baker held the T1 class record at one point at a low 1:02 in a Porsche GT3
Nelson's track records:
Open wheeled car - 58.9 - Formula Atlantic
Full-bodied race car - 1:02.6 - GT1 Mustang
Don't know what or who has been under those times though, as Nelson's site only shows SCCA records.
BeaveRun track records:
Open wheeled car - 51.77 - Formula Mazda
Bike - 56.9 - Larry Pegram on a Duc 748
(as of 2007 - can't find anything more recent, but I beleive it has changed since)
Can't find one for a full bodied car, But do know that Freddie Baker held the T1 class record at one point at a low 1:02 in a Porsche GT3
57 sec was at Beaver Run, not Nelson.
I have to get back to you regarding the Nelson Record. I know the guy who apparently holds the record. It may have been in his Radical. That I am not sure about.
11-16-09, 11:33 AM
#25
Is your full brain in a freeze? Ferrari 430 is a stock car, an expensive one but it's not a Indy or F1 car. Hence my original point of there is no road legal car that will run faster than Ducati Desmosedici RR in ANY road course IF you put comparable drivers/riders on both cars and the bike.
And what was GTR's exact lap time at mid ohio from OLOA?
And what was GTR's exact lap time at mid ohio from OLOA?
Not to call names, are you part brain numb or something?
AMA, Highest level of bike Racing in NA, bikes average the track at around 1:26 to 1:29. Now you're comparing AMA bikes to stock cars?
A GTR has managed that track (mid OH) at 1:??
Stock GTR with 18" tires.
Same driver who one the OLOA last year.
AMA, Highest level of bike Racing in NA, bikes average the track at around 1:26 to 1:29. Now you're comparing AMA bikes to stock cars?
A GTR has managed that track (mid OH) at 1:??
Stock GTR with 18" tires.
Same driver who one the OLOA last year.
11-16-09, 11:40 AM
#26
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Is your full brain in a freeze? Ferrari 430 is a stock car, an expensive one but it's not a Indy or F1 car. Hence my original point of there is no road legal car that will run faster than Ducati Desmosedici RR in ANY road course IF you put comparable drivers/riders on both cars and the bike.
And what was GTR's exact lap time at mid ohio from OLOA?
And what was GTR's exact lap time at mid ohio from OLOA?
11-16-09, 11:42 AM
#27
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I'm in Pittsburgh.
Was just posting some reference #'s for the two tracks (as best as I could find with a quick Google search). I figured the 57 was at BR. The Ledges doesn't have the armco you see in the pic of the GTR :lol: Regardless, that's a real, serious time for BeaveRun.
Was just posting some reference #'s for the two tracks (as best as I could find with a quick Google search). I figured the 57 was at BR. The Ledges doesn't have the armco you see in the pic of the GTR :lol: Regardless, that's a real, serious time for BeaveRun.
11-16-09, 11:44 AM
#28
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11-16-09, 11:51 AM
#29
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I'm in Pittsburgh.
Was just posting some reference #'s for the two tracks (as best as I could find with a quick Google search). I figured the 57 was at BR. The Ledges doesn't have the armco you see in the pic of the GTR :lol: Regardless, that's a real, serious time for BeaveRun.
Was just posting some reference #'s for the two tracks (as best as I could find with a quick Google search). I figured the 57 was at BR. The Ledges doesn't have the armco you see in the pic of the GTR :lol: Regardless, that's a real, serious time for BeaveRun.
That 57 was unofficial. Couple of us rented BR back in march 08. It was snowing, 34 degrees, and partially wet, before it froze, but still the car managed a 57.
From what I understand, the same car went back and managed a 53sec on a warmer day.
Last I heard, the same team also broke the Sebring (FL) record, but again, it was unofficial. I think guy name Tom Long drove the both times.
I am with NASA, NESBA, WERA, Fastrax. I do plenty of track days organized by other clubs as well.
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