How you can drive a new Corvette and annoy GM
11-20-09, 10:06 AM
#31
Lexus Fanatic
"The customer will receive the purchase price of the vehicle itself after any rebates, discounts, plus applicable sales taxes that were actually paid. The customer's buyback price does not include anything else. "
I just want our CL members to have the facts.
11-20-09, 10:17 AM
#32
Lexus Fanatic
Lol obviously not a post by a tax attorney, but we are talking about GM's program, so I will give the facts per GM:
"The customer will receive the purchase price of the vehicle itself after any rebates, discounts, plus applicable sales taxes that were actually paid. The customer's buyback price does not include anything else. "
I just want our CL members to have the facts.
"The customer will receive the purchase price of the vehicle itself after any rebates, discounts, plus applicable sales taxes that were actually paid. The customer's buyback price does not include anything else. "
I just want our CL members to have the facts.
You may have misunderstood me. That doesn't disagree with anything I said. I said that companies are not required to refund tax, but GM has chosen to do so. Saturn, in the '90s, specifically mentioned in the literature that tax was not included in the refund, yet did refund it in my case.
Last edited by mmarshall; 11-20-09 at 10:24 AM.
11-20-09, 10:22 AM
#33
Lexus Fanatic
2. For tax law questions, please seek the advise of a tax lawyer in the appropriate state.
Saturn in the 90's and its questionable practices involving sales tax back then (90's) cannot be verified and aren't relevant, not to mention Saturn is now history as a failed division.
The point is not to agree or disagree with anything you said, it's cool. I'm just bringing the facts regarding the GM buyback program.
11-20-09, 10:23 AM
#34
Lexus Fanatic
One of the factors, of course, in determining if the car will be returned or not is how well it is built in the first place. A car that goes home with a customer is much less likely to be returned if it doesn't start to develop rattles, leaks, shimmies, loose parts, or electrical malfunctions overnight. In general, the better you build them, the more you can back them. Hyundai found that out a number of years ago whan they first put on the 10/10 and 5/60 warranties. That was not possible until they tossed the old 80/90's vintage stuff away and started building reliable cars.
11-20-09, 10:26 AM
#35
Lexus Fanatic
My late mother, who taught me most of what I know about taxes, was an IRS-trained tax consultant, only one step below an official tax G-man/agent.
Lawyers? LOL. With some of them, you might as well talk to a wall.
Respectfully, Let's drop the issue, though......we've both had our say, and we're getting off-topic.
Last edited by mmarshall; 11-20-09 at 10:29 AM.
11-20-09, 10:27 AM
#36
Lexus Fanatic
One of the factors, of course, in determining if the car will be returned or not is how well it is built in the first place. A car that goes home with a customer is much less likely to be returned if it doesn't start to develop rattles, leaks, shimmies, loose parts, or electrical malfunctions overnight. In general, the better you build them, the more you can back them. Hyundai found that out a number of years ago whan they first put on the 10/10 and 5/60 warranties. That was not possible until they tossed the old 80/90's vintage stuff away and started building reliable cars.
11-20-09, 10:30 AM
#37
Lexus Fanatic
Agreed, lawyers have difficulty giving straight answers, but that's off-topic.
11-20-09, 10:31 AM
#38
Lexus Fanatic
Yes. Honda-sourced vehicles (arguably) impress me more with their factory-delivered assembly quality more than those of any other manfacturer, though some of them are U-G-L-Y.
11-20-09, 10:34 AM
#39
Lexus Champion
In any event, the GM 60 Day Guarantee does, most definitely, refund sales tax:
Buyback Price means the actual price you paid to the Participating Dealer for the Eligible Vehicle itself (after any rebates, discounts, employee discounts, or supplier discounts) plus applicable sales taxes you actually paid.
http://www.gm.com/guarantee/terms-an...on_|_gm_60_day
http://www.gm.com/guarantee/terms-an...on_|_gm_60_day
11-21-09, 06:37 AM
#41
Pole Position
I agree, Hyundai's have become much, much, more reliable than in the past. However, their 10/100 warranty was a marketing tool to sell more cars, nothing more.
11-23-09, 03:27 PM
#42
11-24-09, 06:37 AM
#43
Follow up article
Here is the follow up to the original article:
Link
That GM Corvette deal was too good to be true
By JOHN CRUDELE
General Motors should be a- shamed of itself.
If you recall my column last Thursday, I was thinking of using the automaker's "60 Day Satisfaction Guarantee" program to nab myself a new Corvette to use while my own Chevy Camaro was in the shop.
Honestly, it started out as just a gag. I never intended to take the car.
But some people here pushed me to follow through -- drive it around for a while and then bring it back to the dealer with a contented smile on my face and the keys in my hand.
So, I would be driving a Corvette around the city right now -- if the GM program weren't such a scam.
In spite of the company's record of incompetence, Americans bit their bottom lips earlier this year and turned billions over to GM, as well as Chrysler. No questions asked.
Well, now I have questions. A lot of them.
On the bright side, so few car buyers were interested in the "60-Day Satisfaction Guarantee" -- despite an enormous advertising push by GM -- that not many people have gotten hurt. And after I explain the joke behind the guarantee program, GM should be asked these same questions by the folks in Congress who nodded obediently at the bailout and the consumer protectors who are supposed to sniff out fraud.
The saleswoman with whom I was "negotiating" in my previous column said I would have to keep the Corvette at least 30 days, but then I could return it as long as I didn't drive the car for more than 4,000 miles and didn't have an "accident."
That is not what the fine print says.
"The vehicle may not be returned if there has been more than two hundred dollars ($200.00) worth of damage to the vehicle at the time of the return . . ." the details state.
That doesn't constitute an "accident."
Anyone who has had a new car for 30 days -- and has actually driven it -- knows even a scratch on the paint will cost you more than $200 to fix.
What if your kids drop some food on the rug? That's probably more than $200 worth of damage.
Even a scrape on the rims of the $70,000 Corvette I was threatening to take would be about $400 in replacement costs.
But that's not even the punch line of GM's joke.
The sentence above continues " . . . even if you made the repairs."
Ah! So in other words, you'd better not take your new car out on the road. There is virtually no way you are going to drive for the required month and bring the car back in pristine enough condition to satisfy a dealer who is about to take a hit of up to 33 percent of the car's value.
A pebble from the truck in front of you will cause you to be stuck with a $30,000 car you don't like.
If someone leans up again the car while you are parked on the street -- you own it forever.
But that's not close to being all of the story.
Even if you returned a perfect car to the GM dealer you'd still be out the title and registration fee (about $400 in New Jersey); documentation fees of between $150 and $500; the cost of any paint, fabric or rust protection you were foolish enough to buy, and the extended warranty on the car you don't want to keep.
The longer warranty alone could add up to $2,500 on a 'Vette.
And we won't even get into the complications you'd have if you took out a loan for the car or traded in another vehicle. Or the fact that you couldn't return the floor mats -- which, of course, would look great in your shower after the car is gone.
You'd be in the hole for thousands of dollars before you drove back onto the dealer's lot.
And then there's the little matter of sales tax. A document given to me by a dealer who thinks this program is a total farce reads, the "dealer would be responsible for recovering the sales tax from the state."
Oh yeah, that'll be easy!
Can you just see New York State and the city coughing up sales tax for a vehicle that was legally bought, paid for and driven off the lot for between 30 and 60 days?
And even if all 50 states dutifully comply with the request for a sales tax refund, how does this work?
Will the dealer upfront the money to the customer (unlikely) or will the dissatisfied car buyer have to wait until the state finally turns over the dough?
I could have been waiting forever for the return of the $7,000 sales tax on the Corvette.
It has been nearly 60 days since the start of this guarantee program, so people who no longer want their cars should be discovering all this nonsense very soon.
GM says that 53 people have successfully returned cars under this program and 140 are "in the process," whatever that means. The company sold more than 222,000 cars since mid-September that could qualify for this program.
But only 653 people took the guarantee, according to GM. The rest (the smart ones) opted for a $500 incentive given in place of the guarantee.
Only four people so far haven't been able to return their cars because they had more than $200 worth of damage, claims GM.
But the company couldn't say how many of the 140 cars that were "in the process" of being returned had damage. I'm disappointed that I didn't get to be the owner (at least temporarily) of a beautiful car.
But there was only one way that I -- and not GM -- would end up ahead: buy the car, park it in my garage and drive it back to the dealer after the 30th day.
That would have been loads of fun.
GM would then have itself a barely used car worth only about 67 percent of its original cost.
And I would have gotten to show it to very select friends invited to a private viewing in my garage.
They'd have to wear gloves, of course, and have no sharp objects in their pockets if they wanted to sit in my Corvette.
And heaven forbid a bird dumped on my car on the ride back to the dealer. Would I be allowed to wipe it off, or would that be considered a "repair?" john.crudele@nypost.com
By JOHN CRUDELE
General Motors should be a- shamed of itself.
If you recall my column last Thursday, I was thinking of using the automaker's "60 Day Satisfaction Guarantee" program to nab myself a new Corvette to use while my own Chevy Camaro was in the shop.
Honestly, it started out as just a gag. I never intended to take the car.
But some people here pushed me to follow through -- drive it around for a while and then bring it back to the dealer with a contented smile on my face and the keys in my hand.
So, I would be driving a Corvette around the city right now -- if the GM program weren't such a scam.
In spite of the company's record of incompetence, Americans bit their bottom lips earlier this year and turned billions over to GM, as well as Chrysler. No questions asked.
Well, now I have questions. A lot of them.
On the bright side, so few car buyers were interested in the "60-Day Satisfaction Guarantee" -- despite an enormous advertising push by GM -- that not many people have gotten hurt. And after I explain the joke behind the guarantee program, GM should be asked these same questions by the folks in Congress who nodded obediently at the bailout and the consumer protectors who are supposed to sniff out fraud.
The saleswoman with whom I was "negotiating" in my previous column said I would have to keep the Corvette at least 30 days, but then I could return it as long as I didn't drive the car for more than 4,000 miles and didn't have an "accident."
That is not what the fine print says.
"The vehicle may not be returned if there has been more than two hundred dollars ($200.00) worth of damage to the vehicle at the time of the return . . ." the details state.
That doesn't constitute an "accident."
Anyone who has had a new car for 30 days -- and has actually driven it -- knows even a scratch on the paint will cost you more than $200 to fix.
What if your kids drop some food on the rug? That's probably more than $200 worth of damage.
Even a scrape on the rims of the $70,000 Corvette I was threatening to take would be about $400 in replacement costs.
But that's not even the punch line of GM's joke.
The sentence above continues " . . . even if you made the repairs."
Ah! So in other words, you'd better not take your new car out on the road. There is virtually no way you are going to drive for the required month and bring the car back in pristine enough condition to satisfy a dealer who is about to take a hit of up to 33 percent of the car's value.
A pebble from the truck in front of you will cause you to be stuck with a $30,000 car you don't like.
If someone leans up again the car while you are parked on the street -- you own it forever.
But that's not close to being all of the story.
Even if you returned a perfect car to the GM dealer you'd still be out the title and registration fee (about $400 in New Jersey); documentation fees of between $150 and $500; the cost of any paint, fabric or rust protection you were foolish enough to buy, and the extended warranty on the car you don't want to keep.
The longer warranty alone could add up to $2,500 on a 'Vette.
And we won't even get into the complications you'd have if you took out a loan for the car or traded in another vehicle. Or the fact that you couldn't return the floor mats -- which, of course, would look great in your shower after the car is gone.
You'd be in the hole for thousands of dollars before you drove back onto the dealer's lot.
And then there's the little matter of sales tax. A document given to me by a dealer who thinks this program is a total farce reads, the "dealer would be responsible for recovering the sales tax from the state."
Oh yeah, that'll be easy!
Can you just see New York State and the city coughing up sales tax for a vehicle that was legally bought, paid for and driven off the lot for between 30 and 60 days?
And even if all 50 states dutifully comply with the request for a sales tax refund, how does this work?
Will the dealer upfront the money to the customer (unlikely) or will the dissatisfied car buyer have to wait until the state finally turns over the dough?
I could have been waiting forever for the return of the $7,000 sales tax on the Corvette.
It has been nearly 60 days since the start of this guarantee program, so people who no longer want their cars should be discovering all this nonsense very soon.
GM says that 53 people have successfully returned cars under this program and 140 are "in the process," whatever that means. The company sold more than 222,000 cars since mid-September that could qualify for this program.
But only 653 people took the guarantee, according to GM. The rest (the smart ones) opted for a $500 incentive given in place of the guarantee.
Only four people so far haven't been able to return their cars because they had more than $200 worth of damage, claims GM.
But the company couldn't say how many of the 140 cars that were "in the process" of being returned had damage. I'm disappointed that I didn't get to be the owner (at least temporarily) of a beautiful car.
But there was only one way that I -- and not GM -- would end up ahead: buy the car, park it in my garage and drive it back to the dealer after the 30th day.
That would have been loads of fun.
GM would then have itself a barely used car worth only about 67 percent of its original cost.
And I would have gotten to show it to very select friends invited to a private viewing in my garage.
They'd have to wear gloves, of course, and have no sharp objects in their pockets if they wanted to sit in my Corvette.
And heaven forbid a bird dumped on my car on the ride back to the dealer. Would I be allowed to wipe it off, or would that be considered a "repair?" john.crudele@nypost.com
11-24-09, 02:01 PM
#44
Pole Position
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: IL
Posts: 2,667
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That's pretty harsh. I agree with you on your Gm pont, but salesmen are working to support themselves and their families. Not all salespeople are bad.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Gojirra99
Car Chat
1
06-21-05 10:18 AM
