Car Chat General discussion about Lexus, other auto manufacturers and automotive news.

Toyota recalls and related issues: BusinessWeek-Media owes Toyota an apology

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 02-03-10 | 01:07 PM
  #346  
I8ABMR's Avatar
I8ABMR
Lexus Fanatic
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 22,608
Likes: 102
From: Waiting for next track day
Default

There is no end to this negative publicity for Toyota. Now even John Stewart is throwing a few jabs with his "toyotathon of death"

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/03/v...thon-of-death/


Where there's funny to be found, you can count on Jon Stewart to find it. The much-loved host of news parody program The Daily Show has proven a knack for exposing the humorous side of whatever's happening in the news, and lately, well...that's been Toyota and its two recalls. So it was only a matter of time until his Comedy Central crew took a good-natured jab at the world's largest automaker in its most difficult time.

In the video after the jump, you'll find Stewart and his troop noting the overwhelming irony behind Toyota's unstoppable acceleration in the marketplace, the explosive flip-side of its superior gas mileage, company president Akio Toyoda's use of an Audi wagon in Switzerland, and, of course, what this means for Detroit's Big 3 automakers. Set aside five minutes, put a handful of Fritos in your mouth and watch the "Toyotathon of Death." Bonus: David Letterman also took a swing at Toyota on the Late Show. Watch both funnymen ply their craft at Toyota's expense


found video

http://jalopnik.com/5463271/the-dail...?autoplay=true
Attached Thumbnails Toyota recalls and related issues: BusinessWeek-Media owes Toyota an apology-stewart-toyota-screencap.jpg  

Last edited by I8ABMR; 02-03-10 at 01:16 PM.
Old 02-03-10 | 01:11 PM
  #347  
bitkahuna's Avatar
bitkahuna
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
 
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 75,594
Likes: 2,578
From: Present
Default

Originally Posted by spwolf
The fact that Toyota did not have an TSB or production line change before recall announcement means that they have had known for issue for limited amount of time.
...
If Toyota has known about this issue from 2007, it would have been fixed in 2007, like probably hundreds of other changes they did from 2007 onwards.
Originally Posted by spwolf
If Toyota had known for pedals sticking, they would have fixed it.
sorry, i think you're being very naïve. internally, toyota's LAWYERS may well have argued with management and engineering about this for years before deciding they had no choice. the liability involved in this is VERY much like the Ford/Firestone disaster, which actually involved VERY FEW accidents also, but the liability for lawsuits was and became enormous.

and again, you are talking crap. There was no accident with sticking gas pedals recall. NO ACCIDENT.
huh? i thought i saw on tv that 18 or so people have died thus far, directly attributable to this issue. granted those investigations may well be faulty, but that's what i heard/saw.
Old 02-03-10 | 01:13 PM
  #348  
I8ABMR's Avatar
I8ABMR
Lexus Fanatic
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 22,608
Likes: 102
From: Waiting for next track day
Default Its still getting worse

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/03/t...-nhtsa-report/


Reports from multiple news outlets cite sources within the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration who claim the government is now looking into electrical problems as the source for Toyota's recall troubles. The unnamed agency employee reportedly told CNN that the government is investigating whether electromagnetic interference might cause the electronic throttle control system to malfunction. The source went on to add that the agency has found no evidence of problems with the electronic throttle, though engineers at NHTSA were still actively investigating the matter.

News of a possible electronics investigation comes not long after Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood claimed that NHTSA "wasn't done with Toyota," and that the Japanese automaker was "a little safety deaf." Shinichi Sasaki, Toyota's vice president in charge of quality, reportedly claimed that the embattled automaker has never found any evidence of electrical problems, a familiar line from the automaker that we've heard since the latest recall was announced. Toyota has been quick to state, however, that it will do anything possible to cooperate in the investigation.

At least one safety expert feels NHTSA should have investigated electronic issues long ago. Sean Kane, president of Safety Research Strategies, said in a recent interview that "by all appearances, electronics are playing a significant role in the problems." Kane says 2002–2006 Camry and 2005–2007 Tacoma models should specifically be investigated, and he points to a case of a 2005 Camry owner who experienced unintended acceleration as he attempted to park. The driver instead launched 23 feet and then dropped off of a 70-foot cliff, killing the driver's wife. Kane says the floor mat was securely fastened to the floor when the accident occurred.

As is typically the case with "anonymous sources," we expect an announcement from NHTSA any day now. Is the safety organization trying to show Congress just how hard it's working to find a solution for Toyota's problems in advance of the February 10 hearing on Capitol Hill? Could be, but more negative press is the last thing Toyota needs right now.
Attached Thumbnails Toyota recalls and related issues: BusinessWeek-Media owes Toyota an apology-lightning-accelerator-toyot.jpg  
Old 02-03-10 | 02:16 PM
  #349  
Indio's Avatar
Indio
Lexus Test Driver
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,169
Likes: 1
From: Florida
Default

Originally Posted by spwolf

So people thinking that car companies just ignore issues is just not true... only problem is that when they indentify issues, they are slow to announce recalls (which was not the case here).

Maybe you missed this yesterday.

Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood told The Associated Press that federal safety officials had to "wake them up" to the seriousness of the safety issues that eventually led Toyota to recall millions of popular brands like Camry and Corolla. That included a visit to Toyota's offices in Japan to convince them to take action.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=9727693
Old 02-03-10 | 03:16 PM
  #350  
4TehNguyen's Avatar
4TehNguyen
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 26,060
Likes: 51
From: Houston, Texas
Default

Transportation Secretary LaHood Also said "He Made A 'Misstatement' After Telling Owners To 'Stop Driving'"

http://wcbstv.com/local/stop.driving...2.1467177.html

the tin foil hat in me says the Administration doesnt like Toyota so they will do anything to hype up a mess and make them look bad. How come I never saw this kind of energy by the govt in much larger recalls by other companies?
Old 02-03-10 | 03:19 PM
  #351  
LexFather
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Originally Posted by 4TehNguyen
Transportation Secretary LaHood Also said "He Made A 'Misstatement' After Telling Owners To 'Stop Driving'"

http://wcbstv.com/local/stop.driving...2.1467177.html

the tin foil hat in me says the Administration doesnt like Toyota so they will do anything to hype up a mess and make them look bad. How come I never saw this kind of energy by the govt in much larger recalls by other companies?
Doesn't matter, the stock dropped 20% right after he said it. Toyota should take his *** to court.
Old 02-03-10 | 03:47 PM
  #352  
IS-SV's Avatar
IS-SV
Lexus Fanatic
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,100
Likes: 1
From: tech capital
Default

Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Doesn't matter, the stock dropped 20% right after he said it. Toyota should take his *** to court.
Expect the boiler-plate shareholder lawsuits to follow....
Old 02-03-10 | 03:55 PM
  #353  
encore888's Avatar
encore888
Lexus Champion
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 8,695
Likes: 2
From: CA
Default

Originally Posted by bitkahuna
huh? i thought i saw on tv that 18 or so people have died thus far, directly attributable to this issue. granted those investigations may well be faulty, but that's what i heard/saw.
The number is probably from Sean Kane, president of Safety Research Strategies, who is party to lawsuits against Toyota. Other media outlets have reported it as 19 people who have been sadly killed in unintended sudden acceleration crashes, but the causes run the gamut from the mats (confirmed in the San Diego tragedy) to possibly the pedals (but still unconfirmed). I looked up Mr. Kane and he's kind of a Ralph Nader type, who is very aggressive in putting his view that auto companies are covering up something; that's a very controversial thing to say without direct evidence, but we'll see what further independent expert investigation brings.

Originally Posted by I8ABMR
Where there's funny to be found, you can count on Jon Stewart to find it. The much-loved host of news parody program The Daily Show has proven a knack for exposing the humorous side of whatever's happening in the news, and lately, well...that's been Toyota and its two recalls. So it was only a matter of time until his Comedy Central crew took a good-natured jab at the world's largest automaker in its most difficult time.

In the video after the jump, you'll find Stewart and his troop noting the overwhelming irony behind Toyota's unstoppable acceleration in the marketplace, the explosive flip-side of its superior gas mileage, company president Akio Toyoda's use of an Audi wagon in Switzerland, and, of course, what this means for Detroit's Big 3 automakers.
While this is manna from heaven for the Toyota-bashers, I also found the Daily Show segment to be quite funny, and they didn't make use misleading statements a la LA Times. Perhaps it's worth mentioning that Akio Toyoda was at the Davos conference where the Lexus RX was used prior to the event, but they selected particular European makes for chauffeur duties.

+1 to John Stewart for also mentioning that you can put the car in neutral if experiencing any acceleration issue in any car.
Old 02-03-10 | 05:21 PM
  #354  
spwolf's Avatar
spwolf
Lexus Champion
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 19,958
Likes: 175
Default

Originally Posted by Indio
Maybe you missed this yesterday.

Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood told The Associated Press that federal safety officials had to "wake them up" to the seriousness of the safety issues that eventually led Toyota to recall millions of popular brands like Camry and Corolla. That included a visit to Toyota's offices in Japan to convince them to take action.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=9727693
yeah and he is an idiot... at House hearings today, they asked him what can be done if it happens to the driver.. his response was..."hmm, umm... i think they said you should shut off the car"... he has no idea what he is talking about at all.

he is trying to make his political career off that, yet he does not even know what was the Toyota suggested action if it happens to you (brake with full strenght and shift car into neutral).
Old 02-03-10 | 05:29 PM
  #355  
spwolf's Avatar
spwolf
Lexus Champion
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 19,958
Likes: 175
Default

Originally Posted by bitkahuna
sorry, i think you're being very naïve. internally, toyota's LAWYERS may well have argued with management and engineering about this for years before deciding they had no choice. the liability involved in this is VERY much like the Ford/Firestone disaster, which actually involved VERY FEW accidents also, but the liability for lawsuits was and became enormous.



huh? i thought i saw on tv that 18 or so people have died thus far, directly attributable to this issue. granted those investigations may well be faulty, but that's what i heard/saw.
um, no dude... thats very different. You are talking about floor mats and not the pedals when it comes to accident reports..

no confirmed accidents on pedals, ever, anywhere. And those would be very easy to confirm as pedal is worn and can be reproduced after the accident as well.

as i said before, there is distinction between fixing the problem on production lines (which is always done, always), and recalling the vehicle (which you are talking about and is deciding between cost and publicity). problem when found is always fixed in production right away, because it lowers warranty and future liabilities costs.

lawyers get mixed up when you talk about doing recall for the problem, which means you are fixing all of the cars affected, and not just ones that come to you with reported issue.

Example with this is Ford F-150 which they fixed on production lines in 2006, but never recalled for 1.5m owners who have faulty airbags in their cars now.

In fact, example of this is every recall ever done by any manufacturer.
Old 02-03-10 | 06:04 PM
  #356  
bitkahuna's Avatar
bitkahuna
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
 
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 75,594
Likes: 2,578
From: Present
Default

mats, gas pedals, i think it's all blurring in the public's eyes.
Old 02-03-10 | 06:44 PM
  #357  
spwolf's Avatar
spwolf
Lexus Champion
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 19,958
Likes: 175
Default

Originally Posted by bitkahuna
mats, gas pedals, i think it's all blurring in the public's eyes.
oh i agree completly...i am just saying how it actually works vs histery.

Most of the public believe cars never brake and recalls are never done.

But when you have govt adding to the histeria, you get this big mess that nobody understands anything in anymore ;-).

p.s. some new info i got - pedals are not actually THE same for every car. Remedy will be different for different vehicles (different size of the bar) and gas pedal will feel exactly the same as before, so no differences in feel... But dont tell that to truthaboutcars blog, they might be dissapointed that their "screw driver wedge-in" reproduction did not get proper results ;-).
Old 02-03-10 | 07:15 PM
  #358  
skylineg35's Avatar
skylineg35
Driver School Candidate
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: ny
Default

Originally Posted by flipside909
Well said. If anything, Toyota is actively doing something about it. Can't say much for the big 3 when they have their own historical issues.
Hopefully Nissan will show class and not disrespect Toyota like Ford, GM.
Old 02-03-10 | 07:46 PM
  #359  
LexFather
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Toyota dealers extend hours to fix faulty pedals
AP

By DEE-ANN DURBIN and DAN STRUMPF, AP Auto Writer Dee-ann Durbin And Dan Strumpf, Ap Auto Writer – Wed Feb 3, 7:12 pm ET

DETROIT – Toyota's dealers, who have started to repair defective gas pedals in millions of U.S. vehicles, are extending hours, making house calls and offering other services as they try to repair the damage to Toyota's reputation.

Toyota Motor Corp. recalled eight models Jan. 21 and stopped selling them five days later because their accelerator pedals could stick in a depressed position. Toyota is sending dealers a piece of steel about the size of a postage stamp that can be inserted into the accelerator mechanism and eliminate the friction that causes the problem.

Jim White Toyota, a dealership in Toledo, Ohio, received about 350 steel pieces, or shims, and began repairs Wednesday morning. By mid-afternoon, about 25 cars were fixed, said Terry Treter, service manager.

Repairs were going smoothly and a little faster than the half-hour Toyota estimated, he said. Technicians do a test drive as part of the repair.

The dealership hired three people to handle phone calls and repair scheduling and will add more people if needed, Treter said. He also said the dealership will stay open as late as necessary.

"I'll stay until midnight," Treter said. "Whatever they want. I won't turn anyone away."

Treter said customers have been calm despite a warning early Wednesday from U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood, who said owners of recalled Toyotas should stop driving them. LaHood later said he misspoke and told owners to get their cars repaired.

At Lee Toyota Topsham in Topsham, Maine, service manager Dan Daigle expected to begin repairs Thursday morning. He has already received around 300 calls from customers and expects to keep technicians working until at least 10 p.m. each night.

"If we need to add people to handle the extra volume, then that's what we'll do," he said.

Earl Stewart, who owns a dealership in North Palm Beach, Fla., is sending a repair van to the homes of customers for the first time, since some are too nervous to drive their vehicles to the dealership.

Toyota is giving U.S. dealers payments of up to $75,000 to help them offer extra measures like house calls.

"Within the next several days, you will receive a check from us (no strings attached) with a simple request - 'do the right thing on behalf of Toyota customers'," Toyota group vice president Bob Carter said Tuesday in the letter to dealers obtained by The Associated Press.

Carter thanked dealers for their extraordinary measures. He also suggested other steps, like additional hires to help with recall repairs, dedicated recall service lanes and complimentary oil changes.

"Toyota dealers already know the first and most critical step of rebuilding the confidence and trust of Toyota owners is the interaction and service they receive in your dealership," Carter said.


Toyota is sending checks this week based on the number of cars each dealer sold in 2009. Dealers who sold fewer than 500 cars will get $7,500. Dealers who sold more than 4,000 will get $75,000.

Toyota has around 1,200 U.S. dealers.

Toyota won't reveal the cost of the repairs, but according to information from dealers, the shim costs only about a penny and a half, while the average cost for 30 minutes of labor to install it is $42.50. Multiplied by 2.3 million vehicles, and the cost of the part and labor alone is $97.8 million, all of which will be covered by Toyota.

Besides the 2.3 million U.S. vehicles recalled because of the gas pedal problem, Toyota recalled 5 million vehicles to fix floor mats that could inadvertently trap the accelerator pedals.

Carter said Toyota is considering other marketing efforts to win back customers' confidence, but he didn't elaborate. Toyota may have to offer rebates and low-interest financing to lure back customers, which could force other automakers to raise their incentives.

Toyota's January sales fell 16 percent, and the company estimated it lost 20,000 sales due to the recall and sales stoppage.

___

Associated Press Writers John Seewer in Toledo and David Sharp in Topsham, Maine, contributed to this report. Dan Strumpf contributed from New York.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100204/...toyota_dealers
Old 02-03-10 | 11:11 PM
  #360  
flipside909's Avatar
flipside909
Lexus Connoisseur
 
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 19,802
Likes: 534
From: USA
Default

Don't Count Out Toyota, Ever!
This Japanese automaker's reputation will survive the recall.
By Lawrence Ulrich of MSN Autos

That's my gut response to the near-hysteria caused by Toyota's recalls to address concerns over unintended acceleration.

Yes, the company's recall of 6.5 million cars — 2.3 million for sticky accelerator pedals and another 4.2 million for pedal-grabbing floor mats — is the automaker's nastiest black eye in memory. Worse, unintended acceleration is the ultimate headline-grabber, one of the scariest scenarios for any driver. The specter of a runaway car worries people far more than, say, the engine sludge build-up that affected some Toyotas in recent years.

But am I the only one who sees GM's response to this issue as undignified, and the response of some Detroit media as self-serving and overblown? GM's opportunistic response was to sweeten deals for Toyota owners that would trade in for a GM model. There's a whiff of ambulance-chasing in that move, a desperation that's beneath this proud American automaker.

Read: Toyota Goes Back to Basics

And to hear the nearly salivating analysis of some Detroit media cheerleaders, Toyota's misstep somehow wipes the competitive slate clean — as though Toyota's well-earned, three-decade reputation for quality is suddenly shot. Or worse, that this episode proves that, say, a Chrysler Sebring is every bit as good as a Toyota Camry.

Don't count on it. And don't mistake this as an apologia for Toyota. The company screwed up, and any consumer with an affected model should get it fixed immediately. But without minimizing the issue, we are talking 19 alleged fatalities among roughly 20 million Toyotas sold here over the last 10 years. That's roughly one death linked to the recall for every million cars Toyota has sold. That's small comfort for those victims, of course, but your lifetime odds of dying in a plane crash (1 in 6,137 flights), a lightning strike (1 in 56,439) or an earthquake (1 in 120,161) are all vastly worse than your chances of dying in a runaway Toyota.

Or, contrast Toyota's 19 deaths with the roughly 250 fatalities linked to an exponentially smaller number of Ford Explorers equipped with defective Firestone tires a decade ago. When those old-school Explorers were flipping en masse, shining a spotlight on the dangers of SUV rollovers — or when Ford pickups were spontaneously catching fire, due to a faulty-ignition-switch whose recall Ford has dragged out for more than a decade — you didn't see Toyota trying to take advantage of the situation.

More Detroit Auto Show Coverage

Whenever Detroit screwed up (which was often) Toyota and other Japanese manufactures always refrained from piling on in public. In one way, that's just smart business: Toyota, still a foreign company despite all its made-in-America cars and domestic dealerships, doesn't want to be seen as anti-patriotic or overly aggressive.

But if Detroit wants to have a public debate on whose cars are the most reliable — whether 20 years ago, 10 years ago, or today — Toyota would be happy to oblige.

To Detroit's credit, there's no question that Ford, GM and to a lesser extent Chrysler have narrowed the once-huge quality gap between American and Japanese cars. By any statistical measure, Detroit is cranking out many top-quality models: From Fords that earn Consumer Reports' coveted "recommended" rating, to Buicks whose reliability rivals that of Lexus. But those same statistical measures show that Toyota and Lexus remain the world's most defect-free cars, period. The recall doesn't change that. And consumers, I think, are smart enough to figure it out.

The clear message from Detroit (which strikes me as wishful thinking) is that Toyota customers will walk away from the brand they've known and trusted, and buy a Big Three product instead. And in a brutally competitive industry, I guess you do whatever it takes to lure buyers into your own products.

But while Toyota's top executives have acknowledged that it needs to refocus on quality, the recall won't necessarily ding Toyota's sterling reputation in the long term.

Read: Toyota's Reputation Suffers Major Blow

As long as the public decides that Toyota is responding quickly and transparently to these recalls, rather than foot-dragging or evading responsibility, I can't envision any long-term exodus from the brand. Toyota sales dipped 16 percent in January, but that's partially due to Toyota halting sales to address the recall. When Toyota gets its best-selling models back on the market, those sales should balance out.

Yes, a family that has bought three Toyotas in a row, and been thoroughly satisfied, may now be a bit more likely to check out the competition. But that same family isn't going to suddenly ditch a Toyota brand that's had their back for years, and proved its worth with often bulletproof reliability.

As ever, if Detroit wants people to buy its cars and rebuild their trust, it needs to take care of its own business — and stop minding Toyota's.

[This article originally appeared in "Exhaust Notes," a daily destination on MSN Autos.]

Source: http://editorial.autos.msn.com/artic...mentid=1128584



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:14 PM.