Toyota recalls and related issues: BusinessWeek-Media owes Toyota an apology
11-05-09, 06:56 PM
#47
I'm not saying Toyota is right or wrong in this situation. I don't have all of the facts presented in front me to make that call, and I am not taking sides.
What I am saying is that the news and media are known for taking something and blowing it up in an effort to get people to watch, as a scare tactic "This could happen to you!, tonight at 9"
I pointed out the Nightline ABC news bit because they didn't even show Toyota's full official response. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wsbz8uLi-Xs
Again, I'm not taking sides here, I just think the news/media goes a bit too far sometimes and just ends up scaring people rather than presenting unbiased facts.
Just released:
Toyota's official statement: It was never our intention to mislead or provide inaccurate information. Toyota agrees with NHTSA’s position that the removal of the floor mats is an interim measure and that further vehicle-based action is required. We are in the process of developing vehicle-based remedies to help avoid the potential for an incompatible or unsecured driver's floor mat to interfere with the accelerator pedal and cause it to get stuck in the wide open position.
What I am saying is that the news and media are known for taking something and blowing it up in an effort to get people to watch, as a scare tactic "This could happen to you!, tonight at 9"
I pointed out the Nightline ABC news bit because they didn't even show Toyota's full official response. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wsbz8uLi-Xs
Again, I'm not taking sides here, I just think the news/media goes a bit too far sometimes and just ends up scaring people rather than presenting unbiased facts.
Just released:
Toyota's official statement: It was never our intention to mislead or provide inaccurate information. Toyota agrees with NHTSA’s position that the removal of the floor mats is an interim measure and that further vehicle-based action is required. We are in the process of developing vehicle-based remedies to help avoid the potential for an incompatible or unsecured driver's floor mat to interfere with the accelerator pedal and cause it to get stuck in the wide open position.
THIS subject is the other 5% where I think the media is doing the citizens a service by bringing it and keeping it to our attention.
I asked before (not specifically to you, but to ANYONE following this thread) and haven't seen a response to my opinion on the matter........
If 90 or 95 or 98% or most or nearly all or almost all of these sudden acceleration accidents were caused by human error, so be it. But what about the other 10% or 5% or even 2% that is NOT human error, but rather mechanical or electrical or design error. Can those instances be just forgotten about? Can those occurances just be overlooked? Can those accidents and/or deaths just be written off as "it just happens?"
Toyota is responsible unless it is absolutely known and proven that all 100% of all these accidents are human error.
If just 1% of all these sudden acceleration accidents are ecu/electrical/design errors, IT IS TOYOTA'S FAULT! How can anyone disagree with that?
If 1% of Apple IPODS blow up in a users ear and make them deaf, do we just say ehhhhh....human error! If 1% of elevators freefalled from the top floor of a building, do we just say ehhh...human error! If 1% pencil sharpeners cut off a students hands and they lose their fingers, do we just say ehhh...human error!
I can not believe how simplistic some of the points of view/posts are on here. It's disappointing actually, but I should expect it I guess.
All of a sudden everyone on here is an expert in emergency situations! LOL!!! All this Monday morning quarterbacking is laughable!!!! The bottom line is NOBODY can say with 100% certainty, how you will react in an panic stricken sudden emergency! Of course with this SPECIFIC incident, WE ALL will have a better idea how to react, but that is only because we've been DISCUSSING IT BEFORE IT ACTUALLY HAPPENS TO US!!!
Again, unless 100% of these sudden acceleration accidents are human error, then Toyota is responsible and liable for that other 1 or 2 or 5%!!!
I'm not taking sides, but trying to put the blame where it deservedly belongs.
11-05-09, 09:28 PM
#48
Guest
Posts: n/a
Of course German car gets into accident as well, but like it or not, the Germans do over engineer their cars more than the Japanese.
Since the San Diego crash, Toyota has urged all its customers to remove their floor mats as an interim fix. But longer term, Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons said, the company is examining significant design changes.
One possible remedy is to redesign the accelerator pedal to make it harder to get caught by a floor mat, he said. Another potential fix, he said, involves reprogramming the engine's computer to automatically cut power when a driver brakes while the gas pedal is depressed.
The other common defense tactic advised by experts is to simply shift a runaway vehicle into neutral. But the ES 350 is equipped with an automatic transmission that can mimic manual shifting, and its shift lever on the console has a series of gates and detents that allow a driver to select any of at least four forward gears.
The arrangement of those gear selections could make it difficult to shift from a forward gear directly into neutral in a panic situation, Toyota spokesman Lyons acknowledged.
Since the San Diego crash, Toyota has urged all its customers to remove their floor mats as an interim fix. But longer term, Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons said, the company is examining significant design changes.
One possible remedy is to redesign the accelerator pedal to make it harder to get caught by a floor mat, he said. Another potential fix, he said, involves reprogramming the engine's computer to automatically cut power when a driver brakes while the gas pedal is depressed.
The other common defense tactic advised by experts is to simply shift a runaway vehicle into neutral. But the ES 350 is equipped with an automatic transmission that can mimic manual shifting, and its shift lever on the console has a series of gates and detents that allow a driver to select any of at least four forward gears.
The arrangement of those gear selections could make it difficult to shift from a forward gear directly into neutral in a panic situation, Toyota spokesman Lyons acknowledged.
Office of Defects Investigation (ODI)
Defect Investigation PE08008 has 2 Related Recall(s)
NHTSA Campaign ID number: 08V156000
Make/Model(s)
Model/Build Year(s)
VOLKSWAGEN / PASSAT
1999-2005
Manufacturer:
VOLKSWAGEN OF AMERICA, INC
Mfr's Report Date:
APR 04, 2008
Component:
FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE
ELIVERYPotential Number of Units Affected:
412000
Summary:
VOLKSWAGEN IS RECALLING 412,000 MY 1999-2005 PASSAT (5TH GENERATION) VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSIONS AND PRODUCED AFTER JUNE 14, 1999. THESE VEHICLES MAY HAVE AN UNDERBODY HEAT SHIELD THAT CAN BECOME DAMAGED. IN ADDITION, AFFECTED VEHICLES WITH AUTOMATIC OR MANUAL TRANSMISSIONS MAY HAVE A FUEL LINE (1.8T ENGINES ONLY) OR FUEL TANK VENTILATION VALVE (4MOTION/ALL WHEEL DRIVE ONLY) THAT CAN LEAK DUE TO FRACTURE.
Consequence:
A HEAT SHIELD THAT MAY CONTACT THE EXHAUST SYSTEM CAN RESULT IN A VEHICLE FIRE. IN ADDITION, A FUEL LEAK FROM A FUEL LINE OR FUEL TANK VENTILATION VALVE, IN THE PRESENCE OF AN IGNITION SOURCE, CAN LEAD TO A VEHICLE FIRE.
Remedy:
DEALERS WILL INSTALL ADDITIONAL UNDERBODY HEAT SHIELDS ON VEHICLES WITH AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSIONS TO COVER THE POSSIBLY DAMAGED AREAS AND FLASH ALL 1.8T ENGINES WITH A PRECAUTIONARY SOFTWARE UPDATE. DEALERS WILL ALSO INSPECT AND ADJUST THE FUEL LINE ROUTING ON 1.8T VEHICLES AND THE FUEL TANK VENTILATION VALVE ON 4MOTION/ALL WHEEL DRIVE VEHICLES, AND REPLACE COMPONENTS IF NECESSARY FREE OF CHARGE. THE RECALL BEGAN ON JUNE 13, 2008. OWNERS MAY CONTACT VOLKSWAGEN AT 1-800-822-8987.
Notes:
VWOA RECALL NO. 26E5/R5. CUSTOMERS MAY CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S VEHICLE SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-327-4236 (TTY: 1-800-424-9153); OR GO TO HTTP://WWW.SAFERCAR.GOV.
NHTSA Campaign ID number: 08V157000
Make/Model(s)
Model/Build Year(s)
AUDI / A6
2001-2004
AUDI / ALLROAD QUATTRO
2001-2005
Manufacturer:
VOLKSWAGEN OF AMERICA, INC
Mfr's Report Date:
APR 04, 2008
Component:
FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE:STORAGE:TANK ASSEMBLY
Potential Number of Units Affected:
68240
Summary:
VOLKSWAGEN IS RECALLING 68,240 MY 2001-2004 AUDI A6 QUATTRO VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH 2.7L, 2.8L, OR 3.0L ENGINES AND MY 2001-2005 ALLROAD QUATTRO VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH 2.7L OR 4.2L ENGINES. THE AGING OF THE PLASTIC MATERIAL IN THE FUEL TANK ROLLOVER VALVE COMBINED WITH BENDING STRESS FROM THE ALUMINUM VENTILATION LINE TO THE ROLLOVER VALVE NIPPLE MAY LEAD TO CRACKING OF THE NIPPLE. IF THIS HAPPENS, A FUEL LEAK MAY RESULT.
Consequence:
A FUEL LEAK IN THE PRESENCE OF AN IGNITION SOURCE COULD LEAD TO A VEHICLE FIRE.
Remedy:
DEALERS WILL REINFORCE THE NIPPLE ON THE ROLLOVER VALVE TO PREVENT LEAKAGE OR REPAIR THE CRACKING AT THE NIPPLE. THE RECALL BEGAN ON JUNE 27, 2008. OWNERS MAY CONTACT AUDI AT 1-800-822-2834.
Notes:
VW RECALL NO. 20L8/JY. CUSTOMERS MAY CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S VEHICLE SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-327-4236 (TTY: 1-800-424-9153); OR GO TO HTTP://WWW.SAFERCAR.GOV.
11-05-09, 09:32 PM
#49
Guest
Posts: n/a
I hear what you're saying, and I agree with you 100% that the "mainstream" tv news media (abc, nbc, cbs) often tries to "lead" the common citizens into a certain mindset, or they try to "lead" the common citizen into perceiving a situation a certain way. In 95% of those cases, it's in the best interest for the common citizen to do MORE research into the topic or subject at hand, instead of getting a "biased" and one-sided approach and opinion and point of view.
THIS subject is the other 5% where I think the media is doing the citizens a service by bringing it and keeping it to our attention.
I asked before (not specifically to you, but to ANYONE following this thread) and haven't seen a response to my opinion on the matter........
If 90 or 95 or 98% or most or nearly all or almost all of these sudden acceleration accidents were caused by human error, so be it. But what about the other 10% or 5% or even 2% that is NOT human error, but rather mechanical or electrical or design error. Can those instances be just forgotten about? Can those occurances just be overlooked? Can those accidents and/or deaths just be written off as "it just happens?"
Toyota is responsible unless it is absolutely known and proven that all 100% of all these accidents are human error.
If just 1% of all these sudden acceleration accidents are ecu/electrical/design errors, IT IS TOYOTA'S FAULT! How can anyone disagree with that?
If 1% of Apple IPODS blow up in a users ear and make them deaf, do we just say ehhhhh....human error! If 1% of elevators freefalled from the top floor of a building, do we just say ehhh...human error! If 1% pencil sharpeners cut off a students hands and they lose their fingers, do we just say ehhh...human error!
I can not believe how simplistic some of the points of view/posts are on here. It's disappointing actually, but I should expect it I guess.
All of a sudden everyone on here is an expert in emergency situations! LOL!!! All this Monday morning quarterbacking is laughable!!!! The bottom line is NOBODY can say with 100% certainty, how you will react in an panic stricken sudden emergency! Of course with this SPECIFIC incident, WE ALL will have a better idea how to react, but that is only because we've been DISCUSSING IT BEFORE IT ACTUALLY HAPPENS TO US!!!
Again, unless 100% of these sudden acceleration accidents are human error, then Toyota is responsible and liable for that other 1 or 2 or 5%!!!
I'm not taking sides, but trying to put the blame where it deservedly belongs.
THIS subject is the other 5% where I think the media is doing the citizens a service by bringing it and keeping it to our attention.
I asked before (not specifically to you, but to ANYONE following this thread) and haven't seen a response to my opinion on the matter........
If 90 or 95 or 98% or most or nearly all or almost all of these sudden acceleration accidents were caused by human error, so be it. But what about the other 10% or 5% or even 2% that is NOT human error, but rather mechanical or electrical or design error. Can those instances be just forgotten about? Can those occurances just be overlooked? Can those accidents and/or deaths just be written off as "it just happens?"
Toyota is responsible unless it is absolutely known and proven that all 100% of all these accidents are human error.
If just 1% of all these sudden acceleration accidents are ecu/electrical/design errors, IT IS TOYOTA'S FAULT! How can anyone disagree with that?
If 1% of Apple IPODS blow up in a users ear and make them deaf, do we just say ehhhhh....human error! If 1% of elevators freefalled from the top floor of a building, do we just say ehhh...human error! If 1% pencil sharpeners cut off a students hands and they lose their fingers, do we just say ehhh...human error!
I can not believe how simplistic some of the points of view/posts are on here. It's disappointing actually, but I should expect it I guess.
All of a sudden everyone on here is an expert in emergency situations! LOL!!! All this Monday morning quarterbacking is laughable!!!! The bottom line is NOBODY can say with 100% certainty, how you will react in an panic stricken sudden emergency! Of course with this SPECIFIC incident, WE ALL will have a better idea how to react, but that is only because we've been DISCUSSING IT BEFORE IT ACTUALLY HAPPENS TO US!!!
Again, unless 100% of these sudden acceleration accidents are human error, then Toyota is responsible and liable for that other 1 or 2 or 5%!!!
I'm not taking sides, but trying to put the blame where it deservedly belongs.
There was a case of a couple suing Nissan b/c they RAN OVER and killed their child sadly and BLAMES and SUED Nissan b/c the BACK UP MONITOR didn't show the child on the screen.
11-05-09, 09:34 PM
#50
I think most of us here want Toyota to do well, however some of you guys need to let this play out before assuming a defensive posture, if there's no issue the word will come, if there is it needs to be made right, blind consumer loyalty is partly how GM ended up in the crapper.
11-05-09, 09:45 PM
#51
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Ara you make good points. I do have to counter here though. In your signature you are complaining that Lexus doesn't let you use your NAV while moving but Acura does. Lexus does this as their lawyers feel they will not held accountable if someone crashes and they blame Lexus for being able to use the Navigaation. Its only a matter of time (if it hasn't happened yet) before someone SUES an autocompany for that.
There was a case of a couple suing Nissan b/c they RAN OVER and killed their child sadly and BLAMES and SUED Nissan b/c the BACK UP MONITOR didn't show the child on the screen.
There was a case of a couple suing Nissan b/c they RAN OVER and killed their child sadly and BLAMES and SUED Nissan b/c the BACK UP MONITOR didn't show the child on the screen.
bmw and acura (and mercedes) allow more nav control than lexus. can they be sued? sure, but like the nissan case i doubt the prosecution will prevail. most of these 'outrageous' cases get thrown out quickly, or settled.
but the way things are going nav may well become banned.
maine i heard is considering a law to ban ANYTHING that can be 'distracting'. i guess that means kids and passengers. 
so the question is, is it worth inconveniencing ALL owners to avoid the potential of some frivolous lawsuits? yes, a lawsuit might NOT be frivolous in some cases, but no product launch is risk free.
11-05-09, 09:50 PM
#52
Guest
Posts: n/a
if lawyers ran the company the product would never ship.
bmw and acura (and mercedes) allow more nav control than lexus. can they be sued? sure, but like the nissan case i doubt the prosecution will prevail. most of these 'outrageous' cases get thrown out quickly, or settled.
but the way things are going nav may well become banned. maine i heard is considering a law to ban ANYTHING that can be 'distracting'. i guess that means kids and passengers.
so the question is, is it worth inconveniencing ALL owners to avoid the potential of some frivolous lawsuits? yes, a lawsuit might NOT be frivolous in some cases, but no product launch is risk free.
bmw and acura (and mercedes) allow more nav control than lexus. can they be sued? sure, but like the nissan case i doubt the prosecution will prevail. most of these 'outrageous' cases get thrown out quickly, or settled.
but the way things are going nav may well become banned.
maine i heard is considering a law to ban ANYTHING that can be 'distracting'. i guess that means kids and passengers. so the question is, is it worth inconveniencing ALL owners to avoid the potential of some frivolous lawsuits? yes, a lawsuit might NOT be frivolous in some cases, but no product launch is risk free.
I have no issues with not being able to reprogram the NAV when driving. Yeah its been a PITA a couple times but I found a way to stop and do what I needed to do.
So many people want to text, talk, program NAV, do EVERYTHING but pay attention to driving. I find it dangerous as I take driving serious and you and others do.
11-05-09, 10:27 PM
#53
Lexus Champion
And Mercedes had MAJOR issues with Sensotronic brakes, the official factory "fix" is to nix the Sensotronic EBC completely and retrofit a conventional system in.
Ironically Toyota started to use EBC in the 2nd gen Prius but with success.
Ironically Toyota started to use EBC in the 2nd gen Prius but with success.
11-05-09, 11:18 PM
#54
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I think most of us here want Toyota to do well, however some of you guys need to let this play out before assuming a defensive posture, if there's no issue the word will come, if there is it needs to be made right, blind consumer loyalty is partly how GM ended up in the crapper.
11-05-09, 11:34 PM
#56
Guest
Posts: n/a
I think most of us here want Toyota to do well, however some of you guys need to let this play out before assuming a defensive posture, if there's no issue the word will come, if there is it needs to be made right, blind consumer loyalty is partly how GM ended up in the crapper.
Quite the contrary. Most on other forums agree what many of us here are saying. That this is a dumbass issue, not a Toyota issue. You have your few people trying to play Faux News of course but for the most part and from what I've seen, other car forums see this as the media trying to blow something up from people that lack some basic driving skills.
Everyone LOVES to see a giant fall from grace. GM, the Yankees, Toyota, Enron, Mike Tyson, Clinton, Newt, Detroit, etc......
11-06-09, 12:09 AM
#57
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This is not a "dumbass" issue, and frankly I'm insulted that that would be purported in light of the situation (four people burning to death in a 120mph car accident). You should choose your words more carefully, and this continual "us v. them" mentality isn't relevant to this thread in the least.
The issue is, a small number of cases that are not explained, which yes, the media is blowing out of proportion, no question about it. But we can't sit here and reasonably forget about it all, try to throw it all under the rug, simply because it irks us. There's an issue to discuss.
Last edited by FKL; 11-06-09 at 12:13 AM.
11-06-09, 01:01 AM
#58
I'll let you all know when my pedal gets "stuck" on full. I didn't read through the whole thread but I do agree that the media is doing no good right now. Its just like the Swine Flu scare. I stopped trusting the media for most things now. All they want is a story, doesn't matter if it has real facts or not
11-06-09, 01:30 AM
#59
indeed... they had huge issues with drive-by-wire systems, and they scalled down the usage now...
11-06-09, 04:30 AM
#60
Pole Position
Here is another incidence in a Toyota, you can go onto any Toyota model forum and you will find stories like this:
This guy actaully make sure the gas pedal was free when his RAV was surging out of control:
http://rav4world.com/forums/viewtopi...=16073&start=0
I just find it odd that Toyota jump on this floor mat recall so quickly, is it because if the floor mat is the problem that cause sudden accelaration, it would be the best senerio for Toyota.
This guy actaully make sure the gas pedal was free when his RAV was surging out of control:
http://rav4world.com/forums/viewtopi...=16073&start=0
I just find it odd that Toyota jump on this floor mat recall so quickly, is it because if the floor mat is the problem that cause sudden accelaration, it would be the best senerio for Toyota.
I hear what you're saying, and I agree with you 100% that the "mainstream" tv news media (abc, nbc, cbs) often tries to "lead" the common citizens into a certain mindset, or they try to "lead" the common citizen into perceiving a situation a certain way. In 95% of those cases, it's in the best interest for the common citizen to do MORE research into the topic or subject at hand, instead of getting a "biased" and one-sided approach and opinion and point of view.
THIS subject is the other 5% where I think the media is doing the citizens a service by bringing it and keeping it to our attention.
I asked before (not specifically to you, but to ANYONE following this thread) and haven't seen a response to my opinion on the matter........
If 90 or 95 or 98% or most or nearly all or almost all of these sudden acceleration accidents were caused by human error, so be it. But what about the other 10% or 5% or even 2% that is NOT human error, but rather mechanical or electrical or design error. Can those instances be just forgotten about? Can those occurances just be overlooked? Can those accidents and/or deaths just be written off as "it just happens?"
Toyota is responsible unless it is absolutely known and proven that all 100% of all these accidents are human error.
If just 1% of all these sudden acceleration accidents are ecu/electrical/design errors, IT IS TOYOTA'S FAULT! How can anyone disagree with that?
If 1% of Apple IPODS blow up in a users ear and make them deaf, do we just say ehhhhh....human error! If 1% of elevators freefalled from the top floor of a building, do we just say ehhh...human error! If 1% pencil sharpeners cut off a students hands and they lose their fingers, do we just say ehhh...human error!
I can not believe how simplistic some of the points of view/posts are on here. It's disappointing actually, but I should expect it I guess.
All of a sudden everyone on here is an expert in emergency situations! LOL!!! All this Monday morning quarterbacking is laughable!!!! The bottom line is NOBODY can say with 100% certainty, how you will react in an panic stricken sudden emergency! Of course with this SPECIFIC incident, WE ALL will have a better idea how to react, but that is only because we've been DISCUSSING IT BEFORE IT ACTUALLY HAPPENS TO US!!!
Again, unless 100% of these sudden acceleration accidents are human error, then Toyota is responsible and liable for that other 1 or 2 or 5%!!!
I'm not taking sides, but trying to put the blame where it deservedly belongs.
THIS subject is the other 5% where I think the media is doing the citizens a service by bringing it and keeping it to our attention.
I asked before (not specifically to you, but to ANYONE following this thread) and haven't seen a response to my opinion on the matter........
If 90 or 95 or 98% or most or nearly all or almost all of these sudden acceleration accidents were caused by human error, so be it. But what about the other 10% or 5% or even 2% that is NOT human error, but rather mechanical or electrical or design error. Can those instances be just forgotten about? Can those occurances just be overlooked? Can those accidents and/or deaths just be written off as "it just happens?"
Toyota is responsible unless it is absolutely known and proven that all 100% of all these accidents are human error.
If just 1% of all these sudden acceleration accidents are ecu/electrical/design errors, IT IS TOYOTA'S FAULT! How can anyone disagree with that?
If 1% of Apple IPODS blow up in a users ear and make them deaf, do we just say ehhhhh....human error! If 1% of elevators freefalled from the top floor of a building, do we just say ehhh...human error! If 1% pencil sharpeners cut off a students hands and they lose their fingers, do we just say ehhh...human error!
I can not believe how simplistic some of the points of view/posts are on here. It's disappointing actually, but I should expect it I guess.
All of a sudden everyone on here is an expert in emergency situations! LOL!!! All this Monday morning quarterbacking is laughable!!!! The bottom line is NOBODY can say with 100% certainty, how you will react in an panic stricken sudden emergency! Of course with this SPECIFIC incident, WE ALL will have a better idea how to react, but that is only because we've been DISCUSSING IT BEFORE IT ACTUALLY HAPPENS TO US!!!
Again, unless 100% of these sudden acceleration accidents are human error, then Toyota is responsible and liable for that other 1 or 2 or 5%!!!
I'm not taking sides, but trying to put the blame where it deservedly belongs.
Last edited by IS350jet; 11-06-09 at 04:37 AM.