Toyota recalls and related issues: BusinessWeek-Media owes Toyota an apology
02-24-10, 01:06 PM
#706
Lexus Fanatic
breaking news:
"NHTSA officials told investigators that the agency doesn't employ any electrical engineers or software engineers."
So says The Washington Post, in a revelation that's at least shocking if nothing else. Consider your car for a moment. How many electrical connections and silicon bits are there making the whole kit-n'-kaboodle operate? Plenty, right? In fact, The Car Connection estimates that the average "modern luxury car has something close to 100 million lines of software code in it, running on 70 to 100 microprocessors." Though the quote about the government safety agency came out in the government hearings on Toyota safety, that figures to be worrisome news to all motorists, as modern vehicles from all manufacturers are more or less rolling computers, and their very movement is governed by computers that NHTSA apparently cannot begin to analyze – at least internally.
Hopefully, the report regarding the lack of electrical and software engineers at NHTSA was either misunderstood or incorrect. We have a feeling that's likely the case – in fact, Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said in his testimony on Capitol Hill today that the agency does at least have access to such engineers.
UPDATE: During today's remarks, LaHood said there was some confusion in his comments yesterday about a lack of electrical engineers. He has yet to divulge how many engineers NHTSA employs and there's still some question about software engineers. Updates to follow as we learn more.
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/24/r...cal-engineers/
"NHTSA officials told investigators that the agency doesn't employ any electrical engineers or software engineers."
So says The Washington Post, in a revelation that's at least shocking if nothing else. Consider your car for a moment. How many electrical connections and silicon bits are there making the whole kit-n'-kaboodle operate? Plenty, right? In fact, The Car Connection estimates that the average "modern luxury car has something close to 100 million lines of software code in it, running on 70 to 100 microprocessors." Though the quote about the government safety agency came out in the government hearings on Toyota safety, that figures to be worrisome news to all motorists, as modern vehicles from all manufacturers are more or less rolling computers, and their very movement is governed by computers that NHTSA apparently cannot begin to analyze – at least internally.
Hopefully, the report regarding the lack of electrical and software engineers at NHTSA was either misunderstood or incorrect. We have a feeling that's likely the case – in fact, Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said in his testimony on Capitol Hill today that the agency does at least have access to such engineers.
UPDATE: During today's remarks, LaHood said there was some confusion in his comments yesterday about a lack of electrical engineers. He has yet to divulge how many engineers NHTSA employs and there's still some question about software engineers. Updates to follow as we learn more.
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/24/r...cal-engineers/
02-24-10, 01:10 PM
#708
Guest
Posts: n/a
At this rate its no one fault if they drove a Toyota.
I think we should open a useless media forum.
I think we should open a useless media forum.
02-24-10, 01:14 PM
#710
Lexus Fanatic
I have to say the more I read about this recall the more I am starting to feel that Toyota really messed up . I don't feel as defensive of them as I initially did
Most of the vehicles Toyota has recalled as a result of the automakers issues with unintended acceleration span only the past few years, but there have been many reports that Toyota's unwanted thrust issues may have gone back to 2004 or even earlier. Automotive News reports that the automaker appears to have had similar issues as far back as 1999, at least in the UK. According to the trade publication, Toyota recalled 10,919 Lexus IS200 models built between March 1999 and July 2000 for a floor mat issue that could lead to sudden acceleration. Now federal investigators are wondering why Toyota didn't spread their recall over to the U.S.
Information about the UK recall was mentioned yesterday during congressional hearings with the Japanese automaker, and Toyota U.S.A. President Jim Lentz replied to questioning about the earlier floor mat issue saying "we didn't do a very good job of sharing information across the globe." Massachusetts congressman Ed Markey (D) contends that instead of tackling the issue in the states, Toyota instead "deployed lawyers and lobbyists and convinced the Department of Transportation that this was a small floor mat issue and not something more serious."
While news of a much earlier recall in the UK for the same issue that has allegedly lead to 19 or more deaths in the U.S. has some lawmakers up in arms, Toyota insists that the floor mats from the IS200 recall were made in England and the design was not used here in the States. If the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration finds that Toyota failed to initiate a recall after it learned of a defect, the company could face a fine of $16.4 million. Toyota has until March 18 to provide "a chronology of all events that occurred in foreign countries with regard to interference between the accelerator pedal and the driver's side floor mat in vehicles that are identical or substantially similar to any of the recalled U.S. vehicles."
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/24/r...ears-ago-didn/
Most of the vehicles Toyota has recalled as a result of the automakers issues with unintended acceleration span only the past few years, but there have been many reports that Toyota's unwanted thrust issues may have gone back to 2004 or even earlier. Automotive News reports that the automaker appears to have had similar issues as far back as 1999, at least in the UK. According to the trade publication, Toyota recalled 10,919 Lexus IS200 models built between March 1999 and July 2000 for a floor mat issue that could lead to sudden acceleration. Now federal investigators are wondering why Toyota didn't spread their recall over to the U.S.
Information about the UK recall was mentioned yesterday during congressional hearings with the Japanese automaker, and Toyota U.S.A. President Jim Lentz replied to questioning about the earlier floor mat issue saying "we didn't do a very good job of sharing information across the globe." Massachusetts congressman Ed Markey (D) contends that instead of tackling the issue in the states, Toyota instead "deployed lawyers and lobbyists and convinced the Department of Transportation that this was a small floor mat issue and not something more serious."
While news of a much earlier recall in the UK for the same issue that has allegedly lead to 19 or more deaths in the U.S. has some lawmakers up in arms, Toyota insists that the floor mats from the IS200 recall were made in England and the design was not used here in the States. If the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration finds that Toyota failed to initiate a recall after it learned of a defect, the company could face a fine of $16.4 million. Toyota has until March 18 to provide "a chronology of all events that occurred in foreign countries with regard to interference between the accelerator pedal and the driver's side floor mat in vehicles that are identical or substantially similar to any of the recalled U.S. vehicles."
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/24/r...ears-ago-didn/
02-24-10, 01:15 PM
#711
And Toyota will bring 100 of black box readers in USA by April 2010... so within 40 days.
problem is that now insurance companies will be able to easily claim that it was your fault in the accident, and not theirs. So customers loses here.
02-24-10, 01:17 PM
#712
The Lexus sedan driven by Rhonda Smith, who testified in Congress Tuesday about a harrowing incident of sudden acceleration, is still on the road, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
In fact, the new owners of the luxury ES350 sedan have reported 27,000 miles trouble-free with the vehicle, according to a NHTSA spokeswoman. Mrs. Smith and her husband sold the vehicle after the incident
In fact, the new owners of the luxury ES350 sedan have reported 27,000 miles trouble-free with the vehicle, according to a NHTSA spokeswoman. Mrs. Smith and her husband sold the vehicle after the incident
02-24-10, 01:19 PM
#713
blackbox only records last 1-2 seconds, it would not help at all...
And Toyota will bring 100 of black box readers in USA by April 2010... so within 40 days.
problem is that now insurance companies will be able to easily claim that it was your fault in the accident, and not theirs. So customers loses here.
And Toyota will bring 100 of black box readers in USA by April 2010... so within 40 days.
problem is that now insurance companies will be able to easily claim that it was your fault in the accident, and not theirs. So customers loses here.
Then why bother to have them?
There's got to be more to it.
02-24-10, 01:21 PM
#714
Lexus Fanatic
I believe the driver. Why would some guy leaving church with his pregnant wife ram his car into another at full speed. His wife and unborn child were in the car. The guy goes to church so I doubt he was stoned or drunk when it happened .
02-24-10, 01:23 PM
#716
Lexus Test Driver
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02-24-10, 01:28 PM
#718
Lexus Fanatic
WASHINGTON—Toyota Motor Corp.'s top U.S. executive told Congress on Tuesday that the company's recent safety recalls may not totally solve sudden unintended acceleration in its cars, as the transportation secretary said he would expand a federal probe to other auto makers.
House Energy and Commerce Committee Chairman Henry Waxman (D., Calif.) said U.S. auto-safety regulators, including the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, aren't equipped to assess electronic problems that some people have speculated may be a cause of Toyota's issues. He and other lawmakers said new legislation might be needed to address the concern.
"Car makers have entered the electronics era, but NHTSA seems stuck in a mechanical mindset," Mr. Waxman said. "We need to make sure the federal safety agency has the tools and resources it needs to ensure the safety of the electronic controls and on-board computers."
View Full Image
Bloomberg News
Tamara Darvish was among Toyota dealers who descended Tuesday on Washington as Congress held its first hearing on the safety crisis.
The Energy and Commerce Committee opened the first of three congressional sessions on Toyota's safety issues, hearing from a woman who survived a harrowing ride in a runaway Lexus; Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood, who said he may seek new, unspecified legislation; and Jim Lentz, head of Toyota's U.S. sales operations.
On Wednesday, Toyota President Akio Toyoda is expected to testify before the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee. In prepared testimony, Mr. Toyoda apologized to customers and vowed the Japanese company will go back to basics to address quality problems.
Mr. Toyoda will meet later this week with Mr. LaHood, the transportation secretary said during his testimony.
Democrats and Republicans at Tuesday's hearing united in expressing alarm about sudden-acceleration accidents. Democrats were more pointed in criticizing Toyota's behavior, and pushed Mr. Lentz hard on the question of whether he could be certain electronic faults aren't to blame.
Toyota president Akio Toyoda is expected to apologize for the corporate culture that may have lead to the braking failures, Joe White tells the News Hub. Although Toyota is a Japanese company, there are many American jobs at stake if the company fails.
Related Video
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News Hub: Auto Makers Could Face New Laws
News Hub: Toyota's Sticky Gas Pedal Situation
News Hub: Toyota Recalls Prius
More on Toyota
Toyota Hearings Draw Plaintiffs' Lawyers
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Full Text: Testimony by Toyota's Lentz
Opinion
Akio Toyoda: Back to Basics for Toyota
Several Republicans cautioned against a "witch hunt," echoing concerns of some Toyota dealers.
Mr. Lentz tried to assure lawmakers that Toyota's recent recalls of millions of vehicles have addressed the known causes of sudden-acceleration incidents. But consistent with the auto maker's newfound humility, Mr. Lentz also didn't close the door to the possibility that other causes, such as faulty electronics, could be involved.
"We never rule out anything that could cause sudden unintended acceleration," Mr. Lentz said. "We are vigilant and continue to look for causes. What we know today is it is not an electronic issue."
Toyota has recalled more than eight million vehicles globally to fix problems with sticky gas pedals, floor mats that can get trapped under accelerators, brake problems and other issues.
The uncertainty over what prompted Toyota and Lexus owners to lodge some 2,000 complaints with U.S. regulators about unintended acceleration was one of several issues lawmakers and witnesses addressed during a hearing that stretched from late morning to the evening hours. Another issue raised is whether NHTSA has the technical and human resources to assure the safety of increasingly sophisticated, electronically controlled vehicles.
Mr. LaHood testified that NHTSA receives more than 30,000 consumer complaints a year, and defended his agency's handling of the Toyota recalls. NHTSA's investigations of complaints about unintended acceleration have produced no evidence that electronic throttle systems are affected by electromagnetic interference, as some have speculated, he said. NHTSA is conducting a new review of that issue. The agency also is investigating whether Toyota violated rules requiring timely notification of safety problems.
Journal Community
At the Hearing
AFP/Getty Images
"I prayed to God to help me."
-- Rhonda Smith, a driver whose car suddenly accelerated
More highlights from the hearing
Affected Models
Review details on models in each recall.
View Slideshow
Escalating Problem
Track the NHTSA-Toyota relationship.
View Interactive
More photos and interactive graphics
View Full Image
Reuters
James Lentz, Toyota President and COO of Motor Sales in the U.S., testifies before a House subcommittee.
Journal CommunityDISCUSS
“Integrity...virtually impossible to get back once lost, for good reason. ”
—Marcus Pratt
Regulators will examine other car makers in their probe of sudden-acceleration problems, Mr. LaHood said. "We're just starting our review," he said. He dismissed as "baloney" the accusation from some quarters that NHTSA was being tough on Toyota because the U.S. government owns 60% of General Motors Co.
In one emotional exchange, Toyota's Mr. Lentz teared up as he recalled losing his brother, who was 30 years old, to a car crash two decades ago.
"There's not a day that goes by that I don't think of that," Mr. Lentz said in a quivering voice. "So I know what these families are going through."
Mr. Lentz apologized for Toyota's failure to address safety problems more quickly. "We acknowledge these mistakes, we apologize for them and we have learned from them," he said.
Earlier, the committee heard dramatic testimony from a woman who survived a sudden-acceleration incident. Rhonda Smith of Sevierville, Tenn., said her Lexus ES350 accelerated out of control on a Tennessee highway in 2006, reaching speeds of 100 miles per hour.
"I prayed to God to help me,'' she said as she choked back tears. Ms. Smith, who eventually was able to get her car stopped, said Toyota was dismissive of her complaint.
Separately, NHTSA said the Lexus driven by Mrs. Smith is still on the road. The new owners have reported 27,000 trouble-free miles, an agency spokeswoman said.
NHTSA investigators determined a floor mat had trapped the accelerator in full-throttle position. But Mrs. Smith insisted the mat wasn't at fault, instead blaming the vehicle's electronics.
Rep. Bart Stupak (D., Mich.), chairman of a House Energy and Commerce subcommittee, said the Toyota crisis draws into question whether a U.S. law known as the Tread Act has achieved its purposes. The law was passed about 10 years ago after fatal accidents involving Ford sport-utility vehicles and Firestone tires. It boosted reporting requirements for car makers and was designed to provide regulators more tools to track safety defects.
Rep. Edward Markey (D., Mass.) said the crisis may result in strengthening the Tread Act.
Throughout Tuesday's hearing, the issue of whether modern automotive electronics can put drivers at risk, and whether Toyota underplayed the risks, was a central question.
Sean Kane, president of Safety Research & Strategies Inc., a for-profit car-safety research firm, said Toyota hasn't done enough to examine its electronics or to undertake timely safety recalls.
"If the floor mat was to blame, Toyota is guilty of failing to acknowledge the very serious and real consequences of pedal entrapment for at least two years," Mr. Kane testified.
Rep. Steve Buyer (R., Ind.) pointed out the ties between Mr. Kane's firm and plaintiff's attorneys who represent accident victims suing Toyota.
Automotive technology Prof. David Gilbert of Southern Illinois University, who is being paid by Mr. Kane's firm, said by altering the circuitry in a gas pedal he was able to replicate a circumstance in a Toyota vehicle that experienced sudden acceleration, without creating an error code in the vehicle's computer that a service person could see.
House Energy and Commerce Committee Chairman Henry Waxman (D., Calif.) said U.S. auto-safety regulators, including the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, aren't equipped to assess electronic problems that some people have speculated may be a cause of Toyota's issues. He and other lawmakers said new legislation might be needed to address the concern.
"Car makers have entered the electronics era, but NHTSA seems stuck in a mechanical mindset," Mr. Waxman said. "We need to make sure the federal safety agency has the tools and resources it needs to ensure the safety of the electronic controls and on-board computers."
View Full Image
Bloomberg News
Tamara Darvish was among Toyota dealers who descended Tuesday on Washington as Congress held its first hearing on the safety crisis.
The Energy and Commerce Committee opened the first of three congressional sessions on Toyota's safety issues, hearing from a woman who survived a harrowing ride in a runaway Lexus; Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood, who said he may seek new, unspecified legislation; and Jim Lentz, head of Toyota's U.S. sales operations.
On Wednesday, Toyota President Akio Toyoda is expected to testify before the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee. In prepared testimony, Mr. Toyoda apologized to customers and vowed the Japanese company will go back to basics to address quality problems.
Mr. Toyoda will meet later this week with Mr. LaHood, the transportation secretary said during his testimony.
Democrats and Republicans at Tuesday's hearing united in expressing alarm about sudden-acceleration accidents. Democrats were more pointed in criticizing Toyota's behavior, and pushed Mr. Lentz hard on the question of whether he could be certain electronic faults aren't to blame.
Toyota president Akio Toyoda is expected to apologize for the corporate culture that may have lead to the braking failures, Joe White tells the News Hub. Although Toyota is a Japanese company, there are many American jobs at stake if the company fails.
Related Video
Toyota Customer Testifies About Brakes
News Hub: Auto Makers Could Face New Laws
News Hub: Toyota's Sticky Gas Pedal Situation
News Hub: Toyota Recalls Prius
More on Toyota
Toyota Hearings Draw Plaintiffs' Lawyers
Trio of Lawmakers Drove Quest for Probe
Recall Dims Japan's Export Outlook
Eyes on the Road: Toyota Rolls Out Deals
ROI: Lessons from Toyota
Full Text: Testimony by Toyota's Lentz
Opinion
Akio Toyoda: Back to Basics for Toyota
Several Republicans cautioned against a "witch hunt," echoing concerns of some Toyota dealers.
Mr. Lentz tried to assure lawmakers that Toyota's recent recalls of millions of vehicles have addressed the known causes of sudden-acceleration incidents. But consistent with the auto maker's newfound humility, Mr. Lentz also didn't close the door to the possibility that other causes, such as faulty electronics, could be involved.
"We never rule out anything that could cause sudden unintended acceleration," Mr. Lentz said. "We are vigilant and continue to look for causes. What we know today is it is not an electronic issue."
Toyota has recalled more than eight million vehicles globally to fix problems with sticky gas pedals, floor mats that can get trapped under accelerators, brake problems and other issues.
The uncertainty over what prompted Toyota and Lexus owners to lodge some 2,000 complaints with U.S. regulators about unintended acceleration was one of several issues lawmakers and witnesses addressed during a hearing that stretched from late morning to the evening hours. Another issue raised is whether NHTSA has the technical and human resources to assure the safety of increasingly sophisticated, electronically controlled vehicles.
Mr. LaHood testified that NHTSA receives more than 30,000 consumer complaints a year, and defended his agency's handling of the Toyota recalls. NHTSA's investigations of complaints about unintended acceleration have produced no evidence that electronic throttle systems are affected by electromagnetic interference, as some have speculated, he said. NHTSA is conducting a new review of that issue. The agency also is investigating whether Toyota violated rules requiring timely notification of safety problems.
Journal Community
At the Hearing
AFP/Getty Images
"I prayed to God to help me."
-- Rhonda Smith, a driver whose car suddenly accelerated
More highlights from the hearing
Affected Models
Review details on models in each recall.
View Slideshow
Escalating Problem
Track the NHTSA-Toyota relationship.
View Interactive
More photos and interactive graphics
View Full Image
Reuters
James Lentz, Toyota President and COO of Motor Sales in the U.S., testifies before a House subcommittee.
Journal CommunityDISCUSS
“Integrity...virtually impossible to get back once lost, for good reason. ”
—Marcus Pratt
Regulators will examine other car makers in their probe of sudden-acceleration problems, Mr. LaHood said. "We're just starting our review," he said. He dismissed as "baloney" the accusation from some quarters that NHTSA was being tough on Toyota because the U.S. government owns 60% of General Motors Co.
In one emotional exchange, Toyota's Mr. Lentz teared up as he recalled losing his brother, who was 30 years old, to a car crash two decades ago.
"There's not a day that goes by that I don't think of that," Mr. Lentz said in a quivering voice. "So I know what these families are going through."
Mr. Lentz apologized for Toyota's failure to address safety problems more quickly. "We acknowledge these mistakes, we apologize for them and we have learned from them," he said.
Earlier, the committee heard dramatic testimony from a woman who survived a sudden-acceleration incident. Rhonda Smith of Sevierville, Tenn., said her Lexus ES350 accelerated out of control on a Tennessee highway in 2006, reaching speeds of 100 miles per hour.
"I prayed to God to help me,'' she said as she choked back tears. Ms. Smith, who eventually was able to get her car stopped, said Toyota was dismissive of her complaint.
Separately, NHTSA said the Lexus driven by Mrs. Smith is still on the road. The new owners have reported 27,000 trouble-free miles, an agency spokeswoman said.
NHTSA investigators determined a floor mat had trapped the accelerator in full-throttle position. But Mrs. Smith insisted the mat wasn't at fault, instead blaming the vehicle's electronics.
Rep. Bart Stupak (D., Mich.), chairman of a House Energy and Commerce subcommittee, said the Toyota crisis draws into question whether a U.S. law known as the Tread Act has achieved its purposes. The law was passed about 10 years ago after fatal accidents involving Ford sport-utility vehicles and Firestone tires. It boosted reporting requirements for car makers and was designed to provide regulators more tools to track safety defects.
Rep. Edward Markey (D., Mass.) said the crisis may result in strengthening the Tread Act.
Throughout Tuesday's hearing, the issue of whether modern automotive electronics can put drivers at risk, and whether Toyota underplayed the risks, was a central question.
Sean Kane, president of Safety Research & Strategies Inc., a for-profit car-safety research firm, said Toyota hasn't done enough to examine its electronics or to undertake timely safety recalls.
"If the floor mat was to blame, Toyota is guilty of failing to acknowledge the very serious and real consequences of pedal entrapment for at least two years," Mr. Kane testified.
Rep. Steve Buyer (R., Ind.) pointed out the ties between Mr. Kane's firm and plaintiff's attorneys who represent accident victims suing Toyota.
Automotive technology Prof. David Gilbert of Southern Illinois University, who is being paid by Mr. Kane's firm, said by altering the circuitry in a gas pedal he was able to replicate a circumstance in a Toyota vehicle that experienced sudden acceleration, without creating an error code in the vehicle's computer that a service person could see.
