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Toyota recalls and related issues: BusinessWeek-Media owes Toyota an apology

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Old 03-04-10, 07:51 PM
  #901  
spwolf
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full article:
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?i...n_Toyota_Probe
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Old 03-04-10, 08:26 PM
  #902  
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I wonder if Toyota has donated any money, in the past, to either Towns' or Issa's campaign funds. That will be interesting to find out, if possible.
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Old 03-04-10, 10:10 PM
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Good to hear, also...the smoking gun IMO is this story by NPR yesterday:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...24276771&ps=rs
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=124235858

It's already on Wikipedia as a chart, and look at this:

Rate of unintended acceleration complaints per 100,000 units sold, by manufacturer:



This info is partly discussed at TTAC...but I think it needs to be blown wide open to expose the media circus for what it is...unfounded and wildly excessive.

I'm very concerned that this media-driven circus will not relent, and it becomes a drip, drip, drip of innuendo.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-update1-.html

U.S. consumers should feel “not very safe” driving Toyota vehicles, as the cause of unintended acceleration is still unknown, Representative Bart Stupak said in an interview yesterday on Bloomberg Television.

‘There’s a Glitch’

“You really don’t know when it’s going to occur and that’s the uncertainty which should cause safety concerns,” said Stupak, a Michigan Democrat and chairman of a House subcommittee probing Toyota. “There’s a glitch in either the computer, the software or the electronic system, and they haven’t been able to narrow it down.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/05/bu.../05toyota.html

Numerous lawsuits have been filed against Toyota in recent weeks, in some cases by relatives of people who have died in crashes that they say were caused by sudden acceleration.

We believe damages could be in the billions of dollars, particularly if there is discovery of a defect in Toyota’s electronic throttle control system as we suspect,” Craig Hutson, a senior investment grade analyst at Gimme Credit, a bond research service, wrote in a note to clients on Thursday.

“If there is a problem in Toyota’s electronic system,” he wrote, “the recent recalls will look puny compared to what the company will have to address with their vehicles on the road.”
The problem IMO has to do with media + lawyers insinuating that electronics are to blame, hyping up the story, and manipulating kernels of info to make Toyota look like a big evil company. For example CNN's reporting, I found this George Washington University' law professor's response:

http://jsiegel.blogspot.com/2010/02/...-big-auto.html

Watching the report, I got a sad sense of overhyping by CNN (the print version linked above is slightly more guarded than the video version I saw). It's difficult to know whom to trust. Toyota has an obvious incentive to say that it has solved the problem. So I appreciate that its statements have to be regarded with some suspicion, as CNN copiously pointed out. But what CNN didn't point out is that CNN itself also has distorting incentives. The story "Toyota doesn't really know what's wrong with its cars and is lying about it" attracts a lot more viewers than the story "Toyota has everything fixed -- just take your car in as per the recall and everything will be fine." So CNN has an incentive to promote those experts it can find who will say bad things about Toyota.

Watching the report, I got the sense that while the experts portrayed are skeptical of Toyota's statements, CNN was positively goading them into saying more than they really believed based on their expertise. It would have been more balanced if CNN had commented on its own incentives as well as Toyota's. It would have been nice if CNN made a statement about how many experts it consulted and whether their views were conflicting. Did every expert consulted by CNN think the electronic interefence theory was more probable than the mechanical pedal problem theory? Or did CNN cherry pick and only show those experts who had that view, ignoring those who thought Toyota had things right?

It's hard to know whom to believe, but I can't say for sure that I would trust CNN more than Toyota. CNN could have helped its own credibility with some added perspective on the trust issue.
Originally Posted by jruhi4
An excellent point. I know The Miami Herald has one, so I'd be surprised if the L.A. Times didn't.
I found a section seemingly for corrections...
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Old 03-05-10, 12:15 AM
  #904  
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Some food for thought; in the 1980s, some experts at Audi believed many SUA complaints were happening because of driver error, and specifically because the brake and accelerator pedal were placed fairly close to each other, and that many drivers did not even realize sometimes that they were pressing on the wrong pedal.

Originally Posted by speedflex
An editorial from Toyota Monitor

Toyota Pulls a 'General Motors'...Again

As the February 2010 have rolled out, a number of sources noted that Toyota is responding to its plummet in the figures with incentives and 0% financing. While this seems like a sure-fire way to boost their sales in the short term, it also makes Toyota sound more and more like the General Motors of the 1970s and 80s.

Consider this: Over the past decade Toyota has gone against longstanding traditional mores governing parent company/parts supplier relationships by putting the screws to their suppliers even in the best of times in order to milk the most profit out of each part. In addition to abusing their suppliers, Toyota has put international growth above all else (even by their own admission). After the first indications that this growth strategy could be taking its toll on vehicle reliability (sludging problems and other issues in the early 2000s) they respond not by becoming more proactive about beefing up reliability, but by spending tens of millions on lobbying to either kill or postpone new safety regulations and limit the scope of their mandatory recalls. When their efforts to skirt around costly recalls finally begin to catch up to them, they issue a massive recall that still manages to not cover all of the cars the NHTSA has recieved complaints about (i.e., the pre-2007 Camry). This recall is quickly "resolved" with a fix that not everyone is entirely certain will even solve the main problem in the first place. In response to the sales numbers lagging from the recall, Toyota creates incentives the likes of which they have never before imagined, which will certainly lead to a further devaluation of the other Toyotas on the road and the erosion of one of their biggest selling-points (resale value).

It doesn't take a historian to see the General Motors-esque pattern developing here. ("Profit Above All Else -> Short Term Thinking -> Negative Results from Short Term Thinking (unreliability) -> More Short Term Thinking (lobbying to avoid repair costs rather than simply recalling the product and fixing future models) -> More Negative Results (increasing numbers of complaints and/or deaths) -> More Short Term Thinking (hastily executed recall that may not have even solved the problem entirely) -> Product Devaluation -> More Short Thinking (incentives) -> Further Product Devaluation) Heck, GM got it down to a science in the 1970s and 80s, right before they were forced to pay the price. One has to wonder how long Toyota will play the old school General Motors game, and what kind of impact this will have on them in the long term. As anyone familiar with the history of the domestic auto manufacturers knows, you can only mortgage against public goodwill and favorable opinions about your company for so long before your company's reputation is upside down and your credit is damaged irrevocably.

http://www.toyotamonitor.com/blog/10...l-motors-again
Total farce of an article .

Suppliers to do this day all still say Toyota is the BEST company to work for. If Toyota has been "tightening the screws", I don't even want to imagine what other automakers have been doing with suppliers in comparison.

There is no proof from suppliers themselves, or from anyone in the industry that suppliers don't like working with Toyota.

Toyota still maintains the best supplier satisfaction in the industry, and there is no evidence to suggest otherwise.

Just another article in a long line of internet articles from writers/authors who don't know a thing about the automotive industry .

Originally Posted by encore888
Good to hear, also...the smoking gun IMO is this story by NPR yesterday:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...24276771&ps=rs
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=124235858

It's already on Wikipedia as a chart, and look at this:

Rate of unintended acceleration complaints per 100,000 units sold, by manufacturer:

So VW had more unintended acceleration complaints than Toyota in 2009 according to that chart? This conflicts with other data out there.
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Old 03-05-10, 12:32 AM
  #905  
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Originally Posted by TRDFantasy
So VW had more unintended acceleration complaints than Toyota in 2009 according to that chart? This conflicts with other data out there.
That chart is of the rate of complaints per 100,000 vehicles.

VW's rate was the highest in 2009, because it had 34 complaints out of 295,000 vehicles sold in total, which translates to a 11.5/100,000 vehicle rate.

Toyota's rate was second in 2009, because it had 133 complaints out of 1,773,000 vehicles sold in total, which translates to a 7.5/100,000 vehicle rate.

In 2009, Toyota led in overall number of complaints, but VW led in overall rate of complaints...the disparity being that Toyota's market share is 16.7% while VW's is 2.8%

By the NPR database, Volvo, Jaguar, Suzuki, and Volkswagen have had a much higher rate of unintended acceleration complaints in the past decade.
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Old 03-05-10, 12:36 AM
  #906  
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Originally Posted by encore888
That chart is of the rate of complaints per 100,000 vehicles.

VW's rate was the highest in 2009, because it had 34 complaints out of 295,000 vehicles sold in total, which translates to a 11.5/100,000 vehicle rate.

Toyota's rate was second in 2009, because it had 133 complaints out of 1,773,000 vehicles sold in total, which translates to a 7.5/100,000 vehicle rate.

In 2009, Toyota led in overall number of complaints, but VW led in overall rate of complaints...the disparity being that Toyota's market share is 16.7% while VW's is 2.8%

By the NPR database, Volvo, Jaguar, Suzuki, and Volkswagen have had a much higher rate of unintended acceleration complaints in the past decade.
Thanks for the clarification, I should have picked up on that .

This is indeed a smoking gun, but I have not seen this reported anywhere, and sadly I don't think this will get reported on any major news outlets.
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Old 03-05-10, 12:38 AM
  #907  
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I posted Mr. Tracy's findings against Biller's 'evidence' when they came out, and now even more people are ironically turning against Mr. Biller, who has been discredited by his own legal team and his actions since leaving the company.

When hearing that Congress subpoenaed his documents and was thinking of having Mr. Biller testify, I was aghast that he would be given a platform to bring his axe to grind against TMC without any accountability for the accuracy of his statements. (That didn't stop ABC News and other news organizations from quoting him directly, interviewing him and letting him smear his former employer without a rebuttal).

However, I'm glad that sense prevailed and the reps saw him for what he was...sadly, a disgruntled employee whose own 'evidence' does not support what he claims.

Last edited by encore888; 03-05-10 at 02:14 AM.
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Old 03-05-10, 12:46 AM
  #908  
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna
our WORTHLESS driving 'test' and lack of retesting when people hit social security age is bringing the inevitable results.

of course it's not the driver's faults, let's sue car makers.
I've said this before - if you're a senior citizen, you're just as much a risk to the public as a teenager driving. Trade in your driver's license for a bus pass - some cities actually have dial-a-ride/paratransit service for seniors and the disabled. You call dispatch, and a shuttle bus shows up at your door.
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Old 03-05-10, 02:00 AM
  #909  
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
I wonder if Toyota has donated any money, in the past, to either Towns' or Issa's campaign funds. That will be interesting to find out, if possible.
i doubt it... records showed that Toyota donated 1/10th of what GM/Ford do... And Issa was harsh on Toyota @ hearings.

It does not really matter what Issa or Towns says when other lawyers suing Toyota say that info is useless.
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Old 03-05-10, 02:05 AM
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Originally Posted by TRDFantasy
Thanks for the clarification, I should have picked up on that .

This is indeed a smoking gun, but I have not seen this reported anywhere, and sadly I don't think this will get reported on any major news outlets.
did you see on any media how Ford in past 5 years recalled 2.5x more vehicles for safety issues than Toyota?

I didnt think so ;-)

but hey self activating airbags and burning cars/cruise controls might not be as serious as floor mats ;-)
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Old 03-05-10, 07:15 AM
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I really hope the media does its job and reports the fact that "unintended acceleration" has been reported in just about all car brands. And at a higher rate than Toyota! It pisses me off that Toyota is being brought to its knees while VW and others who have more complaints get off free with no recalls. This is an outrage.

I really do believe it's driver error in most cases.
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Old 03-05-10, 08:03 AM
  #912  
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Originally Posted by YARIS!
I really hope the media does its job and reports the fact that "unintended acceleration" has been reported in just about all car brands. And at a higher rate than Toyota! It pisses me off that Toyota is being brought to its knees while VW and others who have more complaints get off free with no recalls. This is an outrage.

I really do believe it's driver error in most cases.
Didn't VAG get hit hard with this issue in the mid 90's about the acceleration issue??
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Old 03-05-10, 08:49 AM
  #913  
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Originally Posted by encore888
I posted Mr. Tracy's findings against Biller's 'evidence' when they came out, and now even more people are ironically turning against Mr. Biller, who has been discredited by his own legal team and his actions since leaving the company.

When hearing that Congress subpoenaed his documents and was thinking of having Mr. Biller testify, I was aghast that he would be given a platform to bring his axe to grind against TMC without any accountability for the accuracy of his statements. (That didn't stop ABC News and other news organizations from quoting him directly, interviewing him and letting him smear his former employer without a rebuttal).

However, I'm glad that sense prevailed and the reps saw him for what he was...sadly, a disgruntled employee whose own 'evidence' does not support what he claims.
Today's issue of The Detroit News further elaborates on the above:

Panel head under fire over Toyota documents
Calif. lawmaker accuses committee leader of 'misrepresentations' over subpoenaed material

Christine Tierney / The Detroit News

Allegations that Toyota Motor Corp. tried to hide vehicle defects aren't new: Former Toyota lawyer Dimitrios Biller has claimed for months that he had documents to prove it -- but was prevented by a court from revealing them.

Last week, the public got its first glimpse of Biller's documents, which were subpoenaed by the U.S. House Oversight and Government Reform Committee and briefly posted on its Web site by Chairman Ed Towns, D-N.Y.

They seemed deeply damaging to Toyota at first glance. But they were quickly taken off the site, and Towns is now under fire from members of his committee for his handling of the affair.

In addition to posting the documents, Towns wrote to a senior Toyota official on Feb. 26 demanding an explanation for the documents, which, he said, "indicate Toyota deliberately withheld records" that it was required to share with plaintiffs in civil suits.

Towns' letter, which was made public, contained excerpts from the documents to back up his assertions.

This week, Rep. Darrell Issa of California, the ranking Republican on the House committee, said his staff discovered "factual misrepresentations" in Towns' letter to Yoshimi Inaba, president of Toyota Motor North America.

For instance, Towns cites a memo Biller wrote on Dec. 6, 2006, suggesting that Toyota preferred to settle cases rather than disclose information it kept in so-called "Books of Knowledge."

Towns quotes Biller as saying: "TMS [Toyota Motor Sales USA Inc.] conclude that it would be better to pay a premium to settle this case and avoid producing the 'Books of Knowledge.' "

But Issa's staff said Towns left out a crucial part of the sentence. The full sentence is: "TMS [Toyota Motor Sales USA Inc.] conclude that it would be better to pay a premium to settle this case and avoid producing the 'Books of Knowledge' before Toyota and its counsel had an opportunity to inspect those materials."

Issa's staff also found that the phrase "sudden unintended acceleration" had been injected into a passage that referred to a suit alleging transmission problems.

In addition, Issa noted that a Texas plaintiff lawyer, E. Todd Tracy, reviewed the Biller documents in connection to 17 cases that he had reopened on the basis of Biller's allegations.

"After reviewing the documents, in December 2009, he concluded that: 'I did not see any type of concealment, destruction, or pattern of discovery abuse' and that 'I believe Biller, in his own mind, probably thinks there's something there. But the documents just don't support it,' " Issa quoted Tracy as saying.

A House committee spokeswoman said Issa's complaints were beside the point. "Mr. Issa's comments do not address the central issue -- has Toyota been illegally withholding documents for years," said Jenny Rosenberg.

Biller, who worked for Toyota from 2003 until 2007, is suing Toyota, claiming wrongful termination and emotional distress. He also alleges racketeering at the Japanese automaker.

"Biller continues to make inaccurate and misleading allegations about Toyota's conduct that we strongly dispute and will continue to fight against vigorously," said Toyota spokeswoman Martha Voss.

Toyota sued Biller in 2008 to stop him from using confidential material. It argued successfully that Biller violated a $3.7 million settlement by retaining his files.

This month, an arbitrator in the lawsuit blocked Biller from disclosing internal company documents, but the House Oversight Committee's subpoena superseded the other rulings.

The committee dispute also reflects partisan strains.

"I am concerned that sending this letter without consultation with the minority and its misleading content sheds a negative light on what has otherwise been a successful bipartisan effort," Issa wrote.
http://detnews.com/article/20100305/...yota-documents
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Old 03-05-10, 08:56 AM
  #914  
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So this Biller guy is also fish food.....
 
Old 03-05-10, 09:23 AM
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An article in my local paper today ripping Toyota for being so secretive on the black box contents.
I'm curious about the contents of the box.


http://www.northjersey.com/news/0304....html?page=all

Last edited by Joeb427; 03-05-10 at 09:33 AM.
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