Toyota recalls and related issues: BusinessWeek-Media owes Toyota an apology
03-14-10, 10:42 PM
#1186
Lexus Fanatic
you are not understanding.
Let me be blunt: toyota F'd up by not jumping on the recall sooner, and people are taking advantage and lying to get what they want.seems pretty clear to me
make sense now???
( if not you are on your own buddy )
Let me be blunt: toyota F'd up by not jumping on the recall sooner, and people are taking advantage and lying to get what they want.seems pretty clear to me
make sense now???
( if not you are on your own buddy )
03-14-10, 10:46 PM
#1187
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: florida
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From what area of expertise do you speak?
I'm just curious.
I'm just curious.
Last edited by Icepac; 03-14-10 at 10:51 PM.
03-14-10, 10:53 PM
#1188
Lexus Connoisseur
I'm very well informed about this situation. So far many have made their case, but how many of them are actually getting anywhere? The latest media drama has been in question...the big ones right now are ABC News' report which they have taken the heat for and this latest clown in San Diego with the Prius. People are complaining Toyota didn't step in sooner, but it's okay for Ford, GM and Chrysler to lag on fatal issues concerning their cars for all these years? Now that makes NO sense at all.
03-14-10, 10:59 PM
#1189
Lexus Fanatic
think what you want buddy but it will not change perception anytime soon.
How many are getting anywhere??? I think the media coverage for weeks straight got those people far enough. Not necessarily rich but they absolutely stained and tarnished the image of toyota. Think about people outside the toyota fan circle or people who don't know a lot about cars ( most people ). Unfortunatly the media gives most people their opinions. Most Americans are not
How many are getting anywhere??? I think the media coverage for weeks straight got those people far enough. Not necessarily rich but they absolutely stained and tarnished the image of toyota. Think about people outside the toyota fan circle or people who don't know a lot about cars ( most people ). Unfortunatly the media gives most people their opinions. Most Americans are not
03-14-10, 11:05 PM
#1190
Lexus Connoisseur
think what you want buddy but it will not change perception anytime soon.
How many are getting anywhere??? I think the media coverage for weeks straight got those people far enough. Not necessarily rich but they absolutely stained and tarnished the image of toyota. Think about people outside the toyota fan circle or people who don't know a lot about cars ( most people ). Unfortunatly the media gives most people their opinions. Most Americans are not
How many are getting anywhere??? I think the media coverage for weeks straight got those people far enough. Not necessarily rich but they absolutely stained and tarnished the image of toyota. Think about people outside the toyota fan circle or people who don't know a lot about cars ( most people ). Unfortunatly the media gives most people their opinions. Most Americans are not
Sure you're entitled to your opinion, but you or the media can't really speak for "the general public". We know media is biased...and it's clear in what their stance is in their headlines. ABC News is no stranger to bias. Fox, NBC, CBS and etc are all in the same boat.
03-14-10, 11:21 PM
#1191
Lexus Fanatic
It's up to each individual to believe the media hype that has portrayed Toyota in recent weeks. All companies have growing pains and Toyota certainly is not alone in this. You can't speak for the general public as everyone's opinion varies. So far all you know about the Toyota issue is through media sources nothing else.
Sure you're entitled to your opinion, but you or the media can't really speak for "the general public". We know media is biased...and it's clear in what their stance is in their headlines. ABC News is no stranger to bias. Fox, NBC, CBS and etc are all in the same boat.
Sure you're entitled to your opinion, but you or the media can't really speak for "the general public". We know media is biased...and it's clear in what their stance is in their headlines. ABC News is no stranger to bias. Fox, NBC, CBS and etc are all in the same boat.
03-15-10, 12:16 AM
#1192
Lexus Connoisseur
It lingers for days because they choose to do so. It's hot topic and #1 is in the hot seat. Majority of us here have enough common sense to sort out the BS from the facts.
03-15-10, 12:19 AM
#1193
Lexus Connoisseur
http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/t...le-155094.aspx
Toyota Prius Vehicle Throttle and Brake Systems: Myth VS. Fact
Myth: The start/stop button on the dash will not turn off my Prius while it’s running.
Fact: On early to 2010 models with a push-button smart key system, pushing and holding the button on the dash for about three seconds will shut off the ignition system on the vehicle – even if it’s in gear and moving along the roadway. Newer models may have different control logic – you only have to press the button briefly to shut down the vehicle. Check your Owner’s Manual for details on your vehicle’s system.
Myth: The brake system on my Toyota Prius is not able to stop the car at speed with a wide-open throttle condition.
Fact: The brake system on each Toyota model is capable of overpowering the driveline to stop the vehicle – even with the throttle in a wide-open condition. See Car and Driver's article at: http://www.caranddriver.com/features...tion-tech_dept for more information. Apply firm, steady pressure on the brake pedal – use two feet if needed, to bring the vehicle to a halt. Do not pump the brakes in these conditions, as this may overheat the system, causing a reduction in brake performance. Prius is equipped with a combination of hydraulic and electric regenerative brake systems. All Prius vehicles have a brake system program that reduces gasoline engine power if both the throttle and brake pedals are depressed at the same time. This feature helps reduce the chance of damage to the hybrid system transmission in the event of simultaneous brake and throttle pedal application by the driver, and also helps to slow the vehicle under these circumstances. The regenerative braking via the main electric motor will continue to function to help slow the vehicle
Myth: In the event you encounter a runaway vehicle, the first thing you should do is to turn off the ignition.
Fact: Although turning off the ignition is a possible course of action, the first thing a driver should do is to put the transmission in Neutral. This separates the driveline from the wheels, and gives the driver instant speed control over the vehicle, and allows the driver time to assess what is happening. This also allows continued use of the power steering and brake systems for an easier stopping operation. Pressing the start/stop button to turn off the ignition can be done as a next step. This will shut down power assist to the brakes and steering system – reducing their performance, but the driver can still brake and steer the vehicle manually in this condition. The steering column on Prius will not lock up when the ignition is turned off while the vehicle is moving – allowing the driver steering control. Traditional key type ignitions systems can be turned off while the vehicle is moving without locking the steering column – as long as the key is left in the ignition. Removal of the key may result in a locked steering column, and hamper driver steering control. After placing the transmission in Neutral, and the vehicle is brought to a stop at the side of the road, the final step should be to turn of the ignition.
Myth: The parking brake is effective in stopping a vehicle at speed.
Fact: The parking brake may be helpful in that it can provide some additional brakeforce. However, the amount of brakeforce the parking brake applies will be negligible in a vehicle that is running at anything over paring lot speeds. Placing the transmission in Neutral and using firm steady pressure on the brake pedal will be the best way to bring the vehicle to a stop.
Myth: The transmission would not go into Neutral when an attempt was made to put it in Neutral.
Fact: Prius does have an electronic link between the shift lever and the transmission. The driver should place the Prius in Neutral by moving the shift lever to the “N” position – to the left side of the shift gate, and hold it there for a second – this will put the Prius transmission in Neutral. Firm application of the brakes will slow the vehicle down. Pressing and holding the start/stop button can be used as a final action to stop the vehicle if needed.
Myth: The harder I pressed on the brake pedal, the more the vehicle accelerated.
Fact: In a situation where it appears to the driver that the brake pedal has been depressed, but acceleration results, the driver should stay calm and take immediate action by moving the transmission shift lever to Neutral, use a firm and steady application of the brakes, then get to the side of the road and assess the situation. Neutral allows the driver to gain immediate control, and provides the driver with time to evaluate what is happening to the vehicle.
Myth: Prius has an electronically controlled brake system, and I don’t believe it is as reliable as regular hydraulic brakes.
Fact: Prius does have an electronically controlled brake system which is as reliable as hydraulic brakes. This system utilizes both electric motor regenerative braking and hydraulic braking to stop the vehicle. The Prius system is able to recognize a fault in the regenerative braking system, and will send the driver’s brake input to the hydraulic brakes to stop the vehicle. Prius can also detect a fault in the hydraulic brake system booster, and allow all of the driver’s brake force to be directly sent to the two front brake calipers for maximum stopping power under a “no-boost” condition.
Myth: If I have a throttle stuck in the wide open position, and I put the vehicle in Neutral to help gain control of the vehicle, the engine will over rev, and be damaged.
Fact: If you place your vehicle in Neutral with a wide open throttle, you will hear a lot of engine noise, but don’t be overly concerned by this. All Toyota gasoline engines have a rev limiter function as a part of the engine control program that will prevent over revving of the engine by cutting the fuel supply at a predetermined RPM. This RPM limit varies – depending on the engine type.
Myth: The Brake Override System will make it difficult to start my vehicle on a hill.
Fact: The Brake Override System is designed to stop your vehicle when the brake pedal is firmly pressed in cases where there is acceleration caused by mechanical interference with the throttle pedal. For practical reasons – the Brake Override System will not operate when the brake pedal is depressed first – to allow for uphill starts, while limiting the vehicle’s tendency to roll backwards. When engaged, the Brake Override System will disengage when the brake pedal is released. It will also not function at vehicle speeds of less than 5 mph, as at this point, the vehicle can be stopped safely.
Courtesy: Toyota Motor Sales, USA Inc.
Toyota Prius Vehicle Throttle and Brake Systems: Myth VS. Fact
Myth: The start/stop button on the dash will not turn off my Prius while it’s running.
Fact: On early to 2010 models with a push-button smart key system, pushing and holding the button on the dash for about three seconds will shut off the ignition system on the vehicle – even if it’s in gear and moving along the roadway. Newer models may have different control logic – you only have to press the button briefly to shut down the vehicle. Check your Owner’s Manual for details on your vehicle’s system.
Myth: The brake system on my Toyota Prius is not able to stop the car at speed with a wide-open throttle condition.
Fact: The brake system on each Toyota model is capable of overpowering the driveline to stop the vehicle – even with the throttle in a wide-open condition. See Car and Driver's article at: http://www.caranddriver.com/features...tion-tech_dept for more information. Apply firm, steady pressure on the brake pedal – use two feet if needed, to bring the vehicle to a halt. Do not pump the brakes in these conditions, as this may overheat the system, causing a reduction in brake performance. Prius is equipped with a combination of hydraulic and electric regenerative brake systems. All Prius vehicles have a brake system program that reduces gasoline engine power if both the throttle and brake pedals are depressed at the same time. This feature helps reduce the chance of damage to the hybrid system transmission in the event of simultaneous brake and throttle pedal application by the driver, and also helps to slow the vehicle under these circumstances. The regenerative braking via the main electric motor will continue to function to help slow the vehicle
Myth: In the event you encounter a runaway vehicle, the first thing you should do is to turn off the ignition.
Fact: Although turning off the ignition is a possible course of action, the first thing a driver should do is to put the transmission in Neutral. This separates the driveline from the wheels, and gives the driver instant speed control over the vehicle, and allows the driver time to assess what is happening. This also allows continued use of the power steering and brake systems for an easier stopping operation. Pressing the start/stop button to turn off the ignition can be done as a next step. This will shut down power assist to the brakes and steering system – reducing their performance, but the driver can still brake and steer the vehicle manually in this condition. The steering column on Prius will not lock up when the ignition is turned off while the vehicle is moving – allowing the driver steering control. Traditional key type ignitions systems can be turned off while the vehicle is moving without locking the steering column – as long as the key is left in the ignition. Removal of the key may result in a locked steering column, and hamper driver steering control. After placing the transmission in Neutral, and the vehicle is brought to a stop at the side of the road, the final step should be to turn of the ignition.
Myth: The parking brake is effective in stopping a vehicle at speed.
Fact: The parking brake may be helpful in that it can provide some additional brakeforce. However, the amount of brakeforce the parking brake applies will be negligible in a vehicle that is running at anything over paring lot speeds. Placing the transmission in Neutral and using firm steady pressure on the brake pedal will be the best way to bring the vehicle to a stop.
Myth: The transmission would not go into Neutral when an attempt was made to put it in Neutral.
Fact: Prius does have an electronic link between the shift lever and the transmission. The driver should place the Prius in Neutral by moving the shift lever to the “N” position – to the left side of the shift gate, and hold it there for a second – this will put the Prius transmission in Neutral. Firm application of the brakes will slow the vehicle down. Pressing and holding the start/stop button can be used as a final action to stop the vehicle if needed.
Myth: The harder I pressed on the brake pedal, the more the vehicle accelerated.
Fact: In a situation where it appears to the driver that the brake pedal has been depressed, but acceleration results, the driver should stay calm and take immediate action by moving the transmission shift lever to Neutral, use a firm and steady application of the brakes, then get to the side of the road and assess the situation. Neutral allows the driver to gain immediate control, and provides the driver with time to evaluate what is happening to the vehicle.
Myth: Prius has an electronically controlled brake system, and I don’t believe it is as reliable as regular hydraulic brakes.
Fact: Prius does have an electronically controlled brake system which is as reliable as hydraulic brakes. This system utilizes both electric motor regenerative braking and hydraulic braking to stop the vehicle. The Prius system is able to recognize a fault in the regenerative braking system, and will send the driver’s brake input to the hydraulic brakes to stop the vehicle. Prius can also detect a fault in the hydraulic brake system booster, and allow all of the driver’s brake force to be directly sent to the two front brake calipers for maximum stopping power under a “no-boost” condition.
Myth: If I have a throttle stuck in the wide open position, and I put the vehicle in Neutral to help gain control of the vehicle, the engine will over rev, and be damaged.
Fact: If you place your vehicle in Neutral with a wide open throttle, you will hear a lot of engine noise, but don’t be overly concerned by this. All Toyota gasoline engines have a rev limiter function as a part of the engine control program that will prevent over revving of the engine by cutting the fuel supply at a predetermined RPM. This RPM limit varies – depending on the engine type.
Myth: The Brake Override System will make it difficult to start my vehicle on a hill.
Fact: The Brake Override System is designed to stop your vehicle when the brake pedal is firmly pressed in cases where there is acceleration caused by mechanical interference with the throttle pedal. For practical reasons – the Brake Override System will not operate when the brake pedal is depressed first – to allow for uphill starts, while limiting the vehicle’s tendency to roll backwards. When engaged, the Brake Override System will disengage when the brake pedal is released. It will also not function at vehicle speeds of less than 5 mph, as at this point, the vehicle can be stopped safely.
Courtesy: Toyota Motor Sales, USA Inc.
03-15-10, 02:23 AM
#1194
Lexus Fanatic
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: A better place
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've had at least 20 instances of Z cars catching the pedal all the way down on the floormats in my years servicing nissans.
Far more than than the toyotas I have serviced.
People have a short memory on trumped up crap and fall for the hype again and again.
Remember the Corvair? It had a swing axle irs nearly identical to the car that ralph nader drove when he wrote his book. He also ignored that the car had gone to a corvette style IRS because his book was already written.
Guess what happened when the book came out?
People suddenly realized they had a patsy for an accident they had because they were in a corvair.
Same thing happened with Audis in the very early 80s and the 300zx in the mid 80s.
The 300zx is why we have a shift interlock in automatic transmission cars.
Infiniti put hooks in thier floormats to keep them from sliding and interfering with the gas pedal long before toyota did.
Why? because they had problems with pedal interference.
The carload of people killed was sporting floor mats from a different model line toyota which was the cause of the accident (well, that and the cop's inability to deal with adversity).
Fault goes to the individual dealership in that one.
Then you have the fact that about 50% of high line toyotas and lexus cars have owners who stack two or more floor mats on top of each other.
The news reports I saw had aftermarket floor mats.
The gas pedals that stick were made in elkart indiana and it seems they were made of a slightly different formulation of material than the original spec. set forth by toyota.
We've got people blaming accidents on "sudden acceleration" on cars that are not drive by wire and are not the ones with pedal/floor dimensions condusive to entrapment risk.
What we have is a very small amount of legit problems and a huge amount of people who want to place the blame for thier failures to drive properly on a manufacturer with deep pockets as well as a party (united auto workers) who knows that millions of dollars they could receive hang in the balance.
Far more than than the toyotas I have serviced.
People have a short memory on trumped up crap and fall for the hype again and again.
Remember the Corvair? It had a swing axle irs nearly identical to the car that ralph nader drove when he wrote his book. He also ignored that the car had gone to a corvette style IRS because his book was already written.
Guess what happened when the book came out?
People suddenly realized they had a patsy for an accident they had because they were in a corvair.
Same thing happened with Audis in the very early 80s and the 300zx in the mid 80s.
The 300zx is why we have a shift interlock in automatic transmission cars.
Infiniti put hooks in thier floormats to keep them from sliding and interfering with the gas pedal long before toyota did.
Why? because they had problems with pedal interference.
The carload of people killed was sporting floor mats from a different model line toyota which was the cause of the accident (well, that and the cop's inability to deal with adversity).
Fault goes to the individual dealership in that one.
Then you have the fact that about 50% of high line toyotas and lexus cars have owners who stack two or more floor mats on top of each other.
The news reports I saw had aftermarket floor mats.
The gas pedals that stick were made in elkart indiana and it seems they were made of a slightly different formulation of material than the original spec. set forth by toyota.
We've got people blaming accidents on "sudden acceleration" on cars that are not drive by wire and are not the ones with pedal/floor dimensions condusive to entrapment risk.
What we have is a very small amount of legit problems and a huge amount of people who want to place the blame for thier failures to drive properly on a manufacturer with deep pockets as well as a party (united auto workers) who knows that millions of dollars they could receive hang in the balance.
03-15-10, 04:25 AM
#1195
Pole Position
None of this, of course, applies to legitimate floor mat issues which remain a serious concern. It's this ridiculous floor mat issue that sparked this whole mess.
03-15-10, 04:37 AM
#1196
Lead Lap
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 693
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A minor correction here: The supplier that made the pedals, CTS Corporation, is indeed based in Elkhart, Indiana, but the pedals themselves were made in their Canadian plant.
03-15-10, 05:54 AM
#1197
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Gov't says it cannot explain runaway Toyota
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100315/..._runaway_prius
what bothers me are the comments, mostly attacking Toyota at this point.
i guess our public education has completed its job of destroying the critical thinking of most people.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100315/..._runaway_prius
what bothers me are the comments, mostly attacking Toyota at this point.
i guess our public education has completed its job of destroying the critical thinking of most people.
03-15-10, 07:24 AM
#1198
Lexus Champion
And here's a new "incident":
Paulding woman: Lexus sped up, caused crash
http://timesbulletin.com/main.asp?Se...ticleID=157974
FORT WAYNE, Ind. (AP) - An Ohio woman said her Lexus sped through a parking lot, unimpeded when she hit the brakes, and crashed into a light pole in Fort Wayne, Ind., after its accelerator dropped to the floor.
Myrna Cook, 67, of Paulding, was treated for a broken leg and other injuries after Thursday's crash. She said she almost struck cars and pedestrians in the lot of the upscale Jefferson Pointe outdoor shopping mall.
"I just pulled out and then I heard this huge, loud revving sound, and my car instantly - I mean instantaneously - zoomed forward," Paulding told The Associated Press.
A report by Fort Wayne doesn't indicate how fast her 2007 Lexus ES350 went, and police did not return a call for comment Saturday. Three spokesmen for Toyota Motor Corp., Lexus's maker, and a National Highway Traffic Safety Administration spokeswoman did not return calls.
Toyota has watched its reputation for quality crumble with recalls related to acceleration, braking and floor mats that could trap gas pedals. Cook's car was the subject of a floor mat recall.
Toyota's recall of models whose gas pedals had been caught under floor mats affects 5.3 million U.S. vehicles. The Japanese automaker also has recalled eight car and truck models over potentially sticky accelerators, affecting another 2.3 million U.S. vehicles.
The floor mat recall followed a high-speed crash in August involving a 2009 Lexus ES350 that killed California Highway Patrol Officer Mark Saylor, 45, his wife, their 13-year-old daughter and his brother-in-law. Investigators found a wrong-size floor mat trapped the accelerator and caused that crash.
Cook, who said she has followed news coverage of Toyota's troubles, said she put the car in neutral, tried to turn off the ignition and slammed on the brake. She said none of those measures nor a brake override system a dealer installed about two weeks ago seemed to have any effect.
The impact of the Lexus' air bag deploying left Cook with a fractured a bone in her leg. She said she was relieved that she was able to avoid hitting any people.
"That was my biggest concern because I couldn't see, I was going so fast," Cook said.
http://timesbulletin.com/main.asp?Se...ticleID=157974
FORT WAYNE, Ind. (AP) - An Ohio woman said her Lexus sped through a parking lot, unimpeded when she hit the brakes, and crashed into a light pole in Fort Wayne, Ind., after its accelerator dropped to the floor.
Myrna Cook, 67, of Paulding, was treated for a broken leg and other injuries after Thursday's crash. She said she almost struck cars and pedestrians in the lot of the upscale Jefferson Pointe outdoor shopping mall.
"I just pulled out and then I heard this huge, loud revving sound, and my car instantly - I mean instantaneously - zoomed forward," Paulding told The Associated Press.
A report by Fort Wayne doesn't indicate how fast her 2007 Lexus ES350 went, and police did not return a call for comment Saturday. Three spokesmen for Toyota Motor Corp., Lexus's maker, and a National Highway Traffic Safety Administration spokeswoman did not return calls.
Toyota has watched its reputation for quality crumble with recalls related to acceleration, braking and floor mats that could trap gas pedals. Cook's car was the subject of a floor mat recall.
Toyota's recall of models whose gas pedals had been caught under floor mats affects 5.3 million U.S. vehicles. The Japanese automaker also has recalled eight car and truck models over potentially sticky accelerators, affecting another 2.3 million U.S. vehicles.
The floor mat recall followed a high-speed crash in August involving a 2009 Lexus ES350 that killed California Highway Patrol Officer Mark Saylor, 45, his wife, their 13-year-old daughter and his brother-in-law. Investigators found a wrong-size floor mat trapped the accelerator and caused that crash.
Cook, who said she has followed news coverage of Toyota's troubles, said she put the car in neutral, tried to turn off the ignition and slammed on the brake. She said none of those measures nor a brake override system a dealer installed about two weeks ago seemed to have any effect.
The impact of the Lexus' air bag deploying left Cook with a fractured a bone in her leg. She said she was relieved that she was able to avoid hitting any people.
"That was my biggest concern because I couldn't see, I was going so fast," Cook said.
03-15-10, 07:31 AM
#1199
Lexus Fanatic
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: A better place
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FORT WAYNE, Ind. (AP) - An Ohio woman said her Lexus sped through a parking lot, unimpeded when she hit the brakes, and crashed into a light pole in Fort Wayne, Ind., after its accelerator dropped to the floor.
.
Cook, who said she has followed news coverage of Toyota's troubles, said she put the car in neutral, tried to turn off the ignition and slammed on the brake. She said none of those measures nor a brake override system a dealer installed about two weeks ago seemed to have any effect.
.As for her putting it in neutral, I highly doubt that. Had she actually put it into neutral, the gas pedal would have no effect, and the only pedal that would have an effect on the car would be the brake pedal.
