Toyota recalls and related issues: BusinessWeek-Media owes Toyota an apology
#1201
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#1202
Pole Position
"An Ohio woman said her Lexus sped through a parking lot, unimpeded when she hit the brakes, and crashed into a light pole in Fort Wayne, Ind., after its accelerator dropped to the floor.
Everybody knows, that's a lie, right there.
Everybody knows, that's a lie, right there.
#1204
Lexus Fanatic
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This idiot picked the wrong car to lie about.
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/15/t...prius-but-not/
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/15/t...prius-but-not/
Toyota agrees with NHTSA investigation of runaway Prius, but not calling Sykes a liar
by John Neff (RSS feed) on Mar 15th 2010 at 4:27PM
Toyota walked a fine line this afternoon when it revealed that its own two-day investigation of last week's runaway Prius near San Diego, CA had reached the same conclusion as the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's investigation. That is, the brakes on Jim Sykes' 2008 Toyota Prius should have been able to stop the car. Toyota did not, however, go so far as to call Sykes a liar.
The investigation determined that the front brake pads were worn so far down from overheating that the rotors were scraping the pads' metal backings. According to investigators, this could have only happened if the brake pedal were applied lightly (less than 50% or so) for an extended period of time, not pressed firmly to the floor as Sykes claimed he was doing. Only by "dragging" the brakes lightly could they become so overheated and worn, as firmly pressing the brake pedal while the car is accelerating would engage the brake override system that cuts engine power.
Though asked repeatedly if they had concluded that Sykes was lying, representatives for Toyota insisted that was not their judgment to make and they could only say that the investigation's findings were not consistent with the scenario that Sykes describes.
Follow the jump for Toyota's official statement in which it details all eight points of its findings.
[Source: Toyota]
Show full PR text
The Prius braking system uses both conventional hydraulic friction brakes and a regenerative braking system which switches the electric drive motors into brakes to generate electricity.
The system features a sophisticated self- protection function which cuts engine power if moderate brake pedal pressure is applied and the accelerator pedal is depressed more than approximately 50 percent, in effect providing a form of "brake override."
This function, which is intended to protect the system from overload and possible damage, was found to be functioning normally during the preliminary field examination.
Toyota engineers believe that it would be extremely difficult for the Prius to be driven at a continuous high speed with more than light brake-pedal pressure, and that the assertion that the vehicle could not be stopped with the brakes is fundamentally inconsistent with basic vehicle design and the investigation observations.
These findings suggest that there should be further examination of Mr. Sikes account of the events of March 8.
NHTSA investigators were present during Toyota's examination, and are conducting their own investigation of the vehicle and its performance. Toyota's examination was also observed by a congressional staff member.
by John Neff (RSS feed) on Mar 15th 2010 at 4:27PM
Toyota walked a fine line this afternoon when it revealed that its own two-day investigation of last week's runaway Prius near San Diego, CA had reached the same conclusion as the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's investigation. That is, the brakes on Jim Sykes' 2008 Toyota Prius should have been able to stop the car. Toyota did not, however, go so far as to call Sykes a liar.
The investigation determined that the front brake pads were worn so far down from overheating that the rotors were scraping the pads' metal backings. According to investigators, this could have only happened if the brake pedal were applied lightly (less than 50% or so) for an extended period of time, not pressed firmly to the floor as Sykes claimed he was doing. Only by "dragging" the brakes lightly could they become so overheated and worn, as firmly pressing the brake pedal while the car is accelerating would engage the brake override system that cuts engine power.
Though asked repeatedly if they had concluded that Sykes was lying, representatives for Toyota insisted that was not their judgment to make and they could only say that the investigation's findings were not consistent with the scenario that Sykes describes.
Follow the jump for Toyota's official statement in which it details all eight points of its findings.
[Source: Toyota]
Show full PR text
- The accelerator pedal was tested and found to be working normally with no mechanical binding or friction. It should be noted that the Prius is not subject to a recall for sticking accelerator pedals and the Prius component is made by a different supplier than the one recalled.
- The front brakes showed severe wear and damage from overheating. The rear brakes and parking brake were in good condition and functional.
- A Toyota carpeted floor mat of the correct type for the vehicle was installed but not secured to the retention hooks. It was not found to be interfering or even touching the accelerator pedal.
- The pushbutton power switch worked normally and shut the vehicle off when depressed for 3 seconds as the 911 operator advised Mr. Sikes to do.
- The shift lever also worked normally and neutral could be selected. The neutral position is clearly marked and can be easily engaged by moving the lever left to the "N" marking.
- There were no diagnostic trouble codes found in the power management computer, nor was the dashboard malfunction indicator light activated. The hybrid self-diagnostic system did show evidence of numerous, rapidly repeated on-and- off applications of both the accelerator and the brake pedals.
- After examination of individual components, the front brakes were replaced and the vehicle was test driven, during which the vehicle was observed to be functioning normally.
- During testing, the brakes were purposely abused by continuous light application in order to overheat them. The vehicle could be safely stopped by means of the brake pedal, even when overheated.
The Prius braking system uses both conventional hydraulic friction brakes and a regenerative braking system which switches the electric drive motors into brakes to generate electricity.
The system features a sophisticated self- protection function which cuts engine power if moderate brake pedal pressure is applied and the accelerator pedal is depressed more than approximately 50 percent, in effect providing a form of "brake override."
This function, which is intended to protect the system from overload and possible damage, was found to be functioning normally during the preliminary field examination.
Toyota engineers believe that it would be extremely difficult for the Prius to be driven at a continuous high speed with more than light brake-pedal pressure, and that the assertion that the vehicle could not be stopped with the brakes is fundamentally inconsistent with basic vehicle design and the investigation observations.
These findings suggest that there should be further examination of Mr. Sikes account of the events of March 8.
NHTSA investigators were present during Toyota's examination, and are conducting their own investigation of the vehicle and its performance. Toyota's examination was also observed by a congressional staff member.
Last edited by 4TehNguyen; 03-15-10 at 03:02 PM.
#1206
Pole Position
Originally Posted by Autoblog
The hybrid self-diagnostic system did show evidence of numerous, rapidly repeated on-and- off applications of both the accelerator and the brake pedals.
Even if they don't prosecute this guy, I hope he get so humiliated he can no longer show his face in public without getting spit on.
#1207
Speaks French in Russian
Well as of this minute, the Philly FOX news is still putting the blame on Toyota. Stating "of course Toyota didn't find anything wrong with the Prius" and Sykes needs to hire a credible lawyer that knows a lot about vehicle malfunctions etc when he decides to sue. They didnt even mention the NHTSA investigation .
I do not see this getting better for Toyota any time soon as long as the media keeps reporting what they want, and not the entire investigation.
I do not see this getting better for Toyota any time soon as long as the media keeps reporting what they want, and not the entire investigation.
Last edited by GFerg; 03-15-10 at 08:15 PM.
#1208
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Media outlets will not be able to ignore the big sales increase that Toyota will get in March. That will be a retail increase, not a fleet increase.
There will be NO WAY for the media to spin that piece of good news.
IMHO, as I've stated before, I do believe the worst for Toyota is over, and it will start to gradually get better.
There will be NO WAY for the media to spin that piece of good news.
IMHO, as I've stated before, I do believe the worst for Toyota is over, and it will start to gradually get better.
#1211
^^^
LOL...coming from an automotive and aviation enthusiast background, it astounds me how often the media screws up technical concepts. A 737 makes an emergency landing and some article will say "jumbo jet crash lands" or something ridiculous. Same here, probably could grade the coverage differently...WSJ gets an A for mentioning all details, including that the brake wear pattern is very suspect on the alleged Prius; USA Today gets a C for putting the lawyer story there but not the contradicting details, and others (say LA Times) gets an F for doing story after story on the alleged runaway Prius but then just barely getting around to the 'inconsistencies' found in Prius hoax etc.
That above Philly Fox station clearly gets a D or F for still trying to pin this hoax on Toyota, but most other local news I've seen, along with CNN, have focused suspicion of late on the Prius hoaxer himself.
LOL...coming from an automotive and aviation enthusiast background, it astounds me how often the media screws up technical concepts. A 737 makes an emergency landing and some article will say "jumbo jet crash lands" or something ridiculous. Same here, probably could grade the coverage differently...WSJ gets an A for mentioning all details, including that the brake wear pattern is very suspect on the alleged Prius; USA Today gets a C for putting the lawyer story there but not the contradicting details, and others (say LA Times) gets an F for doing story after story on the alleged runaway Prius but then just barely getting around to the 'inconsistencies' found in Prius hoax etc.
That above Philly Fox station clearly gets a D or F for still trying to pin this hoax on Toyota, but most other local news I've seen, along with CNN, have focused suspicion of late on the Prius hoaxer himself.
#1212
Racer
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I believe by now, people have made up their minds on where they stand with this. Those who believe Toyota is at fault, will act accordingly; I know some owners of a Prius who currently leave the car parked, because they are afraid of the thing...there is not much which can be done to convince them of otherwise, and increased sales certainly won't do it. On the other hand, many people continue to happily drive their Toyota vehicles, as we see them on the road, daily. Monthly sales being up, thanks in part to incentives, is a good thing, but Toyota needs to continue their efforts to put this issue behind them, while salvaging what they can of their reputation.
When done, they need to tighten up their PR, because it was sloppy and handled this situation poorly, IMO.
#1213
Just dropped off my parents 2007 Camry off for the floor mat accelerator and oil hose for the VVT-I recalls. The Toyota dealership we got the car from sure don't offer much accommodations for the inconvenience. No loaner car, but courtesy shuttle ride home with NO pick up. With the thousands of cars they have to work on with recalls, makes me wonder the possibility of will the work be done. How would I be able to know by self inspection of what is actually being done to the vehicle?
#1214
Lexus Champion
Well as of this minute, the Philly FOX news is still putting the blame on Toyota. Stating "of course Toyota didn't find anything wrong with the Prius" and Sykes needs to hire a credible lawyer that knows a lot about vehicle malfunctions etc when he decides to sue. They didnt even mention the NHTSA investigation .
I do not see this getting better for Toyota any time soon as long as the media keeps reporting what they want, and not the entire investigation.
I do not see this getting better for Toyota any time soon as long as the media keeps reporting what they want, and not the entire investigation.
#1215
Just dropped off my parents 2007 Camry off for the floor mat accelerator and oil hose for the VVT-I recalls. The Toyota dealership we got the car from sure don't offer much accommodations for the inconvenience. No loaner car, but courtesy shuttle ride home with NO pick up. With the thousands of cars they have to work on with recalls, makes me wonder the possibility of will the work be done. How would I be able to know by self inspection of what is actually being done to the vehicle?
floor mat - reshaped pedal and area below the pedal. Easily noticable.
Accelelator, you most likely will not notice any difference.
If they sign the papers that they did the work, and they do not, in case of any accident in the future, a. it will be easily provable that they did not do the work, b. people who signed the work will be liable criminally. So quite unlikely that they might not do the actual recall.