Toyota recalls and related issues: BusinessWeek-Media owes Toyota an apology
06-30-10, 10:35 PM
#1368
Ah, so it is the valve springs. A mechanical part. There are ~3 reports of this happening on our LS forums in the past years. As explained by fmr LS 460 owner here, this can be traced to a single factory problem, which was discussed on the CL model forum last year:
Now they are recalling. What has happened since then, with all the publicity over Toyota recalls, and being 'slow to respond' or engaging in 'cover ups' -- Toyota is now recalling over ANY defect, no matter if there are a handful of incidents. Where in the past they would have let it slide (e.g. what has happened in response to the above reports in the LS forum), now they are going to respond.
Similarly, the VGRS recall which happened around last month--also a case where there were a handful of complaints, but they did it before it became more serious. Yes, it looks bad, but better safe than sorry, and they should do it now before it becomes another 'they covered it up' circus.
According to them, there is a set of robots that assemble these engines. In late 2007/early 2008, one of the robots was found to be out of adjustment, such that when it installed the spring, it scraped it and caused a "score" mark on it. That small score mark created a weak point that can cause a failure of the spring after thousands of cycles.
By the time they discovered the adjustment problem, a large number of engines had been assembled and put into cars, which had been shipped out over the world. It was not known if it would be a problem or not, nor when it might result in a failure, so Lexus had to deal with it when/if a spring failed. IOW, on a case-by-case basis. It wasn't practical to recall a ton of engines just because a spring "might" someday fail.
By the time they discovered the adjustment problem, a large number of engines had been assembled and put into cars, which had been shipped out over the world. It was not known if it would be a problem or not, nor when it might result in a failure, so Lexus had to deal with it when/if a spring failed. IOW, on a case-by-case basis. It wasn't practical to recall a ton of engines just because a spring "might" someday fail.
Similarly, the VGRS recall which happened around last month--also a case where there were a handful of complaints, but they did it before it became more serious. Yes, it looks bad, but better safe than sorry, and they should do it now before it becomes another 'they covered it up' circus.
06-30-10, 10:44 PM
#1369
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Another day, another Toyota/Lexus recall (or at least imminent). 
http://www.france24.com/en/20100701-...ct-crown-model
01 JULY 2010
Toyota warns of Lexus engine defect in Crown model
"The defective engines, whose valve springs are not working properly, may halt in the worst case scenario while driving," Toyota spokesman Hideto Yukawa said. "The company is preparing for taking market measures as soon as possible."
The spokesman did not rule out a recall announcement in the future.
The defective 4.6-litre V8 and 3.5-litre V6 engines are installed in eight top line models, including some hybrids -- the Lexus GS350, GS450h, GS460, IS350, LS460, LS600h and LS600hL as well as Crown sedans, he said.
As many as 270,000 units worldwide, including some 90,000 cars in Japan, may be affected if the company decides to pull the models.
The world's largest automaker has been hit by a series of safety recalls and has pulled around 10 million vehicles worldwide since late last year.
http://www.france24.com/en/20100701-...ct-crown-model
01 JULY 2010
Toyota warns of Lexus engine defect in Crown model
"The defective engines, whose valve springs are not working properly, may halt in the worst case scenario while driving," Toyota spokesman Hideto Yukawa said. "The company is preparing for taking market measures as soon as possible."
The spokesman did not rule out a recall announcement in the future.
The defective 4.6-litre V8 and 3.5-litre V6 engines are installed in eight top line models, including some hybrids -- the Lexus GS350, GS450h, GS460, IS350, LS460, LS600h and LS600hL as well as Crown sedans, he said.
As many as 270,000 units worldwide, including some 90,000 cars in Japan, may be affected if the company decides to pull the models.
The world's largest automaker has been hit by a series of safety recalls and has pulled around 10 million vehicles worldwide since late last year.
Doesn't the LS600h L have a 5.0 liter engine? Article says only 4.6 liter V8 so that means the LS600h L would be unaffected. I feel kinda bad for Lexus.
06-30-10, 10:55 PM
#1370
Yes the LS 600h L has a 5.0 L engine, and it is affected. It says that the 3.5 L engine in the GS 350/IS 350 are also affected, besides the 4.6 L.
As pointed out in Mike_TX's post, a defective robot in the Tahara factory scraped the valve spring during installation. The Tahara plant makes the LS, LSh, GS, GSh, and IS models.
Given that the defective robot was discovered by early 2008, and the issue subsequently corrected, this likely affects VIN #s before the mid 2008 production cycle.
As pointed out in Mike_TX's post, a defective robot in the Tahara factory scraped the valve spring during installation. The Tahara plant makes the LS, LSh, GS, GSh, and IS models.
Given that the defective robot was discovered by early 2008, and the issue subsequently corrected, this likely affects VIN #s before the mid 2008 production cycle.
06-30-10, 11:47 PM
#1372
Yes, it affects a lot of models, but it's not something that happened in the past 6 months, rather this happened in 2007/2008, and the effects linger up to this point. As discussed on the LS forum, it's an issue that could only possibly occur after a lot of miles, and possibly not at all, which is why originally they weren't going to recall. But better safe than sorry.
Recalls are pretty 'routine' in the auto industry, but right now, all attention is on Toyota, plus they are recalling for any possible issue because they're afraid of being accused of covering up problems.
This further supports the earlier inference that the defective factory robot is to blame for this recall.
Recalls are pretty 'routine' in the auto industry, but right now, all attention is on Toyota, plus they are recalling for any possible issue because they're afraid of being accused of covering up problems.
Lexus To Replace Valve Springs In Premium Vehicle Models
http://www.voxy.co.nz/national/lexus...models/5/53823
Thursday, 1 July, 2010 - 17:36
Lexus New Zealand is to assure trouble-free motoring for 185 owners of its premium V8 and GS450 hybrid vehicles by replacing their engine valve springs.
Routine long-term reliability tests in Japan have discovered a manufacturing flaw in some springs, which could cause abnormal engine noise or unstable idling.
Debbie Pattullo, National Manager for Lexus New Zealand, says the springs will be replaced over the next few months, purely to remove the possibility of future problems.
"Lexus is committed to ensuring its customers have an exemplary experience with their vehicles, and that includes ensuring all future owners also receive the highest possible care.
"While no problems have been reported, and the chances of an incident are remote, Lexus wants to replace the springs so it can be confident no future problems will occur."
The work will be completed at Lexus dealers free of charge, and the affected drivers will have the use of a premium Lexus car while their vehicle is being serviced.
http://www.voxy.co.nz/national/lexus...models/5/53823
Thursday, 1 July, 2010 - 17:36
Lexus New Zealand is to assure trouble-free motoring for 185 owners of its premium V8 and GS450 hybrid vehicles by replacing their engine valve springs.
Routine long-term reliability tests in Japan have discovered a manufacturing flaw in some springs, which could cause abnormal engine noise or unstable idling.
Debbie Pattullo, National Manager for Lexus New Zealand, says the springs will be replaced over the next few months, purely to remove the possibility of future problems.
"Lexus is committed to ensuring its customers have an exemplary experience with their vehicles, and that includes ensuring all future owners also receive the highest possible care.
"While no problems have been reported, and the chances of an incident are remote, Lexus wants to replace the springs so it can be confident no future problems will occur."
The work will be completed at Lexus dealers free of charge, and the affected drivers will have the use of a premium Lexus car while their vehicle is being serviced.
07-01-10, 12:42 AM
#1374
LOL, exactly. For years Tahara's robots have been held as the standard of the world, and they still are to a certain extent, but the downside of automation (vs. other car factories with more human employees) is that if there's a defective robot, there's no one to catch it until the problem is discovered by a human.
This appears to be such a case, where a bad robot incorrectly installing valve springs led to another large recall.
This appears to be such a case, where a bad robot incorrectly installing valve springs led to another large recall.
07-01-10, 04:06 AM
#1375
Pole Position
LOL, exactly. For years Tahara's robots have been held as the standard of the world, and they still are to a certain extent, but the downside of automation (vs. other car factories with more human employees) is that if there's a defective robot, there's no one to catch it until the problem is discovered by a human.
This appears to be such a case, where a bad robot incorrectly installing valve springs led to another large recall.
This appears to be such a case, where a bad robot incorrectly installing valve springs led to another large recall.
07-01-10, 06:02 AM
#1377
Lexus Test Driver
Toyota-Lexus can't catch a break. I nearly spelt "brake" oy
07-01-10, 08:20 AM
#1379
Lead Lap
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Yes the LS 600h L has a 5.0 L engine, and it is affected. It says that the 3.5 L engine in the GS 350/IS 350 are also affected, besides the 4.6 L.
As pointed out in Mike_TX's post, a defective robot in the Tahara factory scraped the valve spring during installation. The Tahara plant makes the LS, LSh, GS, GSh, and IS models.
Given that the defective robot was discovered by early 2008, and the issue subsequently corrected, this likely affects VIN #s before the mid 2008 production cycle.
As pointed out in Mike_TX's post, a defective robot in the Tahara factory scraped the valve spring during installation. The Tahara plant makes the LS, LSh, GS, GSh, and IS models.
Given that the defective robot was discovered by early 2008, and the issue subsequently corrected, this likely affects VIN #s before the mid 2008 production cycle.
Maybe not. A good number of IS 350s, and all IS 350C models are built at the Kyushu plant, and are thus unaffected by the rogue robot.
Last edited by jruhi4; 07-01-10 at 08:27 AM.
07-01-10, 08:28 AM
#1380
