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GSF on hold ( again ) , but the 4GS is in the mail

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Old 12-05-09, 08:01 PM
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Default GSF on hold ( again ) , but the 4GS is in the mail

" The LFA powered GSF is on hold. Once again, as Toyotas luxury division reconsiders its Euro CO2 and Corporate Average Fuel Economy strategy . The 2013 model was to be built off the next generation GS, still scheduled for 2011 as a 2012 model. The next generation GS will shrink in overall length, thanks to largely to a shorter overhang"


Motor Trend magazine January 2010


They went on to say that the 4GS will share a modified platform that is based on the IS. ) I dont know if thats a good thing or a bad thing. Then again the new E class is based on the C class)
Attached Thumbnails GSF on hold ( again ) , but the 4GS is in the mail-09-10-30-lexus-lfa-f-badge-wallpaper.jpg   GSF on hold ( again ) , but the 4GS is in the mail-3977806167_46d0d00b3f_b.jpg  
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Old 12-05-09, 08:05 PM
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NOTHING short of a 500+hp GS-F will make the next generation GS a success and a standout, as well as a chance for a breakout from the GS's history of being the worse performing Lexus sedan in terms of sales & significance in the Lexus lineup .
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Old 12-05-09, 08:06 PM
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The GS will benefit by becoming a more sport oriented car, such as the IS.

It's not about elongating or shortening the platform; it really depends on the suspension and handling of the car.

It needs significant delineation from the ES and LS lines. It needs to me "more" like the IS and IS-F.
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Old 12-05-09, 08:27 PM
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I read this and didn't post it b/c I find it way off.
1. The GS is the basis for the platform. The IS is a shortened GS platform. This article is saying the next gen is the other way around. Not true.
2. There is no way the GS is shrinking as the next IS will surely get bigger and this GS NEEDS to get bigger as everything else in its class continues to get huge.
3. The LFA is BESPOKE, the engine is not going to go into the GS-F. Everything we have heard and read explains the engine is for the LFA and why would they want to **** off people buying a 400k car by putting the engine in the GS. The engine in the LFA more than likely costs AS MUCH as a GS. Its not going in the GS.

Motor Trends info on Lexus rarely has been accurate. Wards is a better Lexus source.
 
Old 12-05-09, 08:31 PM
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As 1SICKLEX posted, the current IS and GS share platforms already, so this is nothing new. Dealer sources quoted on CL indicate that the 4GS is larger than the 3GS, not shorter. And as mentioned, the accuracy record of publications like Motor Trend at forecasting future developments...spotty:

Motor Trend: ""Lexus Prius" may get "convertible variant" and "roof-mounted solar panels" - ?

http://www.motortrend.com/future/fut...rid/index.html

Motor Trend: HS 250h "will be the shocker: a lifestyle wagonlike vehicle based on the Prius platform and drivetrain." - ?

http://www.motortrend.com/future/112...rid/index.html

Motor Trend: LF-Xh concept SUV "closer to production than the other concept Lexus is bringing to the show, the already-debuted LF-A sports car." - ?

http://www.motortrend.com/auto_news/..._xh/index.html

Some of their predictions have been accurate, but even Automotive News has been way off at times. Just a few months prior to the LFA debut, there were published reports claiming the V10 had been dropped for a TT V8...
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Old 12-05-09, 08:51 PM
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With the New M56 having 420 hp and 400 ft/lb of torque from a 5.6 liter V8 I would think Lexus would have to make at least 500+ hp to even be competitive in that class. Actually more like 550 now. Damn !! the new M56 has more hp than an ISF.
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Old 12-05-09, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
I read this and didn't post it b/c I find it way off.
1. The GS is the basis for the platform. The IS is a shortened GS platform. This article is saying the next gen is the other way around. Not true.
2. There is no way the GS is shrinking as the next IS will surely get bigger and this GS NEEDS to get bigger as everything else in its class continues to get huge.
3. The LFA is BESPOKE, the engine is not going to go into the GS-F. Everything we have heard and read explains the engine is for the LFA and why would they want to **** off people buying a 400k car by putting the engine in the GS. The engine in the LFA more than likely costs AS MUCH as a GS. Its not going in the GS.

Motor Trends info on Lexus rarely has been accurate. Wards is a better Lexus source.

The motor can end up in the GSF. Toyota needs to recoop some of the development money. Don't think its an exclusive. I am not saying it will be exactly the same motor but it will most likely be the LFA motor detuned I would think
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Old 12-05-09, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
The engine in the LFA more than likely costs AS MUCH as a GS. Its not going in the GS.
Maybe a big reason why the LFA V10 cost so much is because they put it in ONLY 500 CARS
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Old 12-05-09, 08:58 PM
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It's also not just about the overall hp # and the hp wars, it's also about the weight of the car and the materials used, as some of the reviews for the new M have alluded to.

Originally Posted by Gojirra99
Maybe a big reason why the LFA V10 cost so much is because they put it in ONLY 500 CARS
That's possible, but the original LS 400 V8 cost $500 million in 1980s money, which is several billion today, and went in thousands of cars.

Still I'd like to see the LFA V10, or some related version, be used for the GS-F, provided that it can meet efficiency and environmental targets--if not, V8 then...or something creative.
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Old 12-05-09, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by I8ABMR
With the New M56 having 420 hp and 400 ft/lb of torque from a 5.6 liter V8 I would think Lexus would have to make at least 500+ hp to even be competitive in that class. Actually more like 550 now. Damn !! the new M56 has more hp than an ISF.
Yet it won't be faster than an IS-F. HP is not everything.

Most of the sales are not V-8 models, but the V-6 models. So lets hope that is competitive. It would be GREAT if Lexus got into a hp pissing match but I don't see them doing that.

I am not taking anything away from the M56 but the Lexus way is not making a huge displacement engine with more power for the sake of HP. The Lexus way is about power and efficiency and technology. The 380hp 4.6 in the LS makes more HP per liter than this 5.6 V-8 with 420hp. HP is not everything, that is how mullet Mustang owners think.

Will the GS get the 5.0 from the LS 600h L and IS-F? Maybe, I have no idea.

What Nissan has done here is pretty aggressive and I commend them for a big M56. No one expected that. I hope they don't price it like the FX 50 though.

I think I can say it will let people down if the GS this generation doesn't blow people out the water.\

Originally Posted by I8ABMR
The motor can end up in the GSF. Toyota needs to recoop some of the development money. Don't think its an exclusive. I am not saying it will be exactly the same motor but it will most likely be the LFA motor detuned I would think
Can it? Sure anything is possible. Will it? I doubt it. The LFA was approved YEARS ago and the finance department was well aware it was losing money. WE just found out it would but Toyota knew it from day one. Yet they still justified bringing it.

It is exclusive. Only a few engines are in units that low.

Originally Posted by Gojirra99
Maybe a big reason why the LFA V10 cost so much is because they put it in ONLY 500 CARS
Even if more units were sold, the engine would still be a 30-40k engine I would assume. What we are also forgetting is the engine is HAND BUILT, it is not mass produced. Does Toyota even have the capacity to build more?

Originally Posted by encore888
It's also not just about the overall hp # and the hp wars, it's also about the weight of the car and the materials used, as some of the reviews for the new M have alluded to.
Bingo

Last edited by LexFather; 12-05-09 at 09:04 PM.
 
Old 12-05-09, 09:07 PM
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Let me say this in a separate post.

1998 was 1998 and it will never happen again. The GS 400 being the fastest automatic sedan in 1998 was something unheard of from a Japanese company. From that point, the Germans have dominated super sedan performance. The Panamera turbo is a low 3 second 4500lbs SEDAN. That is nuts!!

So if you think Lexus will shock the world again like it did in 1998 with the GS, it will not happen.
 
Old 12-05-09, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Yet it won't be faster than an IS-F. HP is not everything.

Most of the sales are not V-8 models, but the V-6 models. So lets hope that is competitive. It would be GREAT if Lexus got into a hp pissing match but I don't see them doing that.

I am not taking anything away from the M56 but the Lexus way is not making a huge displacement engine with more power for the sake of HP. The Lexus way is about power and efficiency and technology. The 380hp 4.6 in the LS makes more HP per liter than this 5.6 V-8 with 420hp. HP is not everything, that is how mullet Mustang owners think.

Will the GS get the 5.0 from the LS 600h L and IS-F? Maybe, I have no idea.

What Nissan has done here is pretty aggressive and I commend them for a big M56. No one expected that. I hope they don't price it like the FX 50 though.

I think I can say it will let people down if the GS this generation doesn't blow people out the water.


hey Mike I am aware that hp is not the whole story but it does represent a bar or new standard. Wether you want to think so or not but the engine thing is usually a huge source of competition between manufacturers. I am not saying that the M will be faster than an ISF but it will raise the bar in its class , and the GS will need to jump to catch up. They did with the IS and the G35. They did it with the GS300 to the 350 because the M35 had 280. They play in the HP wars like the rest. I think you are a little Lexus biased. Or at least more than me.
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Old 12-05-09, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
It is exclusive. Only a few engines are in units that low.



Even if more units were sold, the engine would still be a 30-40k engine I would assume. What we are also forgetting is the engine is HAND BUILT, it is not mass produced. Does Toyota even have the capacity to build more?
How much do the V10's in the M5, M6 , S8 cost then if they are able to put them in ~$100K+ sedans and coupes ?
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Old 12-05-09, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Yet it won't be faster than an IS-F. HP is not everything.

Most of the sales are not V-8 models, but the V-6 models. So lets hope that is competitive. It would be GREAT if Lexus got into a hp pissing match but I don't see them doing that.

I am not taking anything away from the M56 but the Lexus way is not making a huge displacement engine with more power for the sake of HP. The Lexus way is about power and efficiency and technology. The 380hp 4.6 in the LS makes more HP per liter than this 5.6 V-8 with 420hp. HP is not everything, that is how mullet Mustang owners think.

Will the GS get the 5.0 from the LS 600h L and IS-F? Maybe, I have no idea.

What Nissan has done here is pretty aggressive and I commend them for a big M56. No one expected that. I hope they don't price it like the FX 50 though.

I think I can say it will let people down if the GS this generation doesn't blow people out the water.\



Can it? Sure anything is possible. Will it? I doubt it. The LFA was approved YEARS ago and the finance department was well aware it was losing money. WE just found out it would but Toyota knew it from day one. Yet they still justified bringing it.

It is exclusive. Only a few engines are in units that low.





Bingo
They will have hard enough time selling 500 of them at 400k a piece. They will need to make as much money back on development as possible , especially now that they are slipping
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Old 12-05-09, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Gojirra99
How much do the V10's in the M5, M6 , S8 cost then if they are able to put them in ~$100K+ sedans and coupes ?
If the Germans can do it so can Lexus. Build it in a factory and call it a day.
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