Acura: Tier 1 goal abandoned..."Smart luxury" in (Sub TSX coming, hybrids)
12-08-09, 01:06 PM
#61
Lexus Test Driver
Sales numbers for the 2010 MDX with its ugly grill has drop by double digits since last year. The last gen MDX sold almost twice as much as the current one on a annual basis, and we know where the TL's sales numbers are heading
Last edited by The G Man; 12-08-09 at 01:19 PM.
12-08-09, 01:08 PM
#62
Lexus Fanatic
Thanks for the more current sales rate data, obviously some of that is related to the state of the economy (double digit declines are not uncommon), but some of it is simply Acura and its so-so products.
12-08-09, 01:10 PM
#63
Lexus Test Driver
I don't see why Acura dealers are so upset. For some time, Acura has not announced any new products other than the ZDX. So why would a dealership think they needed to embark on major improvements? My take? Most haven't embarked on anything. It's been no secret Acura has not had anything in the oven for some time. Hell, anyone can follow internet boards to see nothing was in the pipeline. If a dealership went through the trouble to upgrade based on a standard corporate promise, then they deserve to be suffering. Every manufacturer pumps up their crystal ball predictions, it's part of selling your product. Whether you have new products coming or not, you try to keep people energetic and optimistic.
12-08-09, 01:15 PM
#64
I don't see why Acura dealers are so upset. For some time, Acura has not announced any new products other than the ZDX. So why would a dealership think they needed to embark on major improvements? My take? Most haven't embarked on anything. It's been no secret Acura has not had anything in the oven for some time. Hell, anyone can follow internet boards to see nothing was in the pipeline. If a dealership went through the trouble to upgrade based on a standard corporate promise, then they deserve to be suffering. Every manufacturer pumps up their crystal ball predictions, it's part of selling your product. Whether you have new products coming or not, you try to keep people energetic and optimistic.
12-08-09, 01:25 PM
#65
Guest
Posts: n/a
Salesmen are pissed too. There is more commission on higher priced cars than lower priced ones. If you haven't heard, they are pretty pissed about the beak and BEGGING dealerships to paint them. Thing is Acura DOES NOT want the beaks painted, its their "new corporate face". Salesman will tell you instantly the beak turns people away immediately and they have an even bigger uphill hill to climb. They are the majority, the minority of people like the new styling.
A mess all over.
12-08-09, 03:00 PM
#67
Lexus Champion
Sadly, it will be a few years before Acura can turn itself around. Nobody wants to buy their cars and it doesn't look like they have anything new coming out soon.
There is not a single car from Acura that I'm the least excited about and I'm sure I'm not the only person who feels that way.
There is not a single car from Acura that I'm the least excited about and I'm sure I'm not the only person who feels that way.
12-08-09, 03:19 PM
#68
Lexus Fanatic
"No..........we will NOT paint those grilles".
Not you, Mike...........Acura management.
(And, believe it or not, some dealerships ARE painting them......at customer request).
Last edited by mmarshall; 12-08-09 at 03:32 PM.
12-08-09, 03:24 PM
#69
Lexus Fanatic
Now that you mentioned it, I can't think of one car Acura currently makes................................................................................
12-08-09, 03:39 PM
#70
Guest
Posts: n/a
12-08-09, 10:24 PM
#71
What is even more shocking when we get to it, its not like the first RL didn't fail for nearly 10 years. From 1996-2005 they found out that people don't want a bland looking, FWD only 45-50k Acura with average acceleration. They saw what Lexus did and what Infiniti was attempting. THEY had YEARS to learn.
So what do they do? Make a bland looking, AWD only 50-55k Acura with average acceleration.
TWO vehicles let me know Acura WAS NOT serious about what they were saying and I said it years ago.
1. The TSX. Yeah its a great sub entry level vehicle. Its not premium. Its not on par with the IS/C/3 etc....where am I going with this? Well remember, Acura said "oh we are dropping the RSX to move up, no one wants a 4 cylinder 2 door". The VERY NEXT vehicle they bring is a 4 cylinder Euro Accord 4 door!!
That made no sense. The RSX should have sold along it. You can't say you are moving upmarket and do a rebadge.
2. The RL. From day one I said it would flop. This is the BEST the company has to offer, their flagship, their technological tour-de-force, this is where the brand is to go. It flopped and enjoyed its best sales the months before the new M/GS arrived. The car simply does not conjure up images of a brand going forward. In retrospect, I much rather the RL debuted with ugly beak/odd all over styling and then it trickle down. Instead the RL got a facelift and followed the TSX, then TL (if this fail sounds familiar, Infiniti had the same issue with the Q45....it debuted first but the G35 is what Infiniti is identified with today..thus its gone).
I always use this example. The first gen GS was a sales FLOP. Imagine Lexus then came in 1998 with the same formula or barely any changes. Okay styling, V-6 only, AWD. This entire website would be different and Lexus as a whole would be different. Instead Lexus learned their lesson, gave the car great styling, a V-8, and it stood out. Hell I MIGHT NOT be here.
It has a lot to do with Honda's philosophy of efficiency and a LOT of internal fighting. Honda doesn't want or care to really be a luxury brand. They are happy selling tons of cars doing it their way. Acura never was more than Hondas with leather most years. Acura execs wanted to move up and it seems Honda never really wanted to make the investment Toyota made in Lexus. We got a bunch of press releases and hot air and the ZDX.
Thus they end up where they began.
I've said it a million times, no one wants expensive Acuras. They have not built their brand to a level where people will GLADLY part with their money for them. In contrast, BMW, Benz, Lexus has the brand power to command premium prices.
Acura should then bring back the RSX, bring the CSX and bring the names back and just be a great 22k-42k brand. NOTHING WRONG with that.
I just fear its too late and in 2010, they will move from 4th to 6th in sales.
So what do they do? Make a bland looking, AWD only 50-55k Acura with average acceleration.
TWO vehicles let me know Acura WAS NOT serious about what they were saying and I said it years ago.
1. The TSX. Yeah its a great sub entry level vehicle. Its not premium. Its not on par with the IS/C/3 etc....where am I going with this? Well remember, Acura said "oh we are dropping the RSX to move up, no one wants a 4 cylinder 2 door". The VERY NEXT vehicle they bring is a 4 cylinder Euro Accord 4 door!!
That made no sense. The RSX should have sold along it. You can't say you are moving upmarket and do a rebadge. 2. The RL. From day one I said it would flop. This is the BEST the company has to offer, their flagship, their technological tour-de-force, this is where the brand is to go. It flopped and enjoyed its best sales the months before the new M/GS arrived. The car simply does not conjure up images of a brand going forward. In retrospect, I much rather the RL debuted with ugly beak/odd all over styling and then it trickle down. Instead the RL got a facelift and followed the TSX, then TL (if this fail sounds familiar, Infiniti had the same issue with the Q45....it debuted first but the G35 is what Infiniti is identified with today..thus its gone).
I always use this example. The first gen GS was a sales FLOP. Imagine Lexus then came in 1998 with the same formula or barely any changes. Okay styling, V-6 only, AWD. This entire website would be different and Lexus as a whole would be different. Instead Lexus learned their lesson, gave the car great styling, a V-8, and it stood out. Hell I MIGHT NOT be here.
It has a lot to do with Honda's philosophy of efficiency and a LOT of internal fighting. Honda doesn't want or care to really be a luxury brand. They are happy selling tons of cars doing it their way. Acura never was more than Hondas with leather most years. Acura execs wanted to move up and it seems Honda never really wanted to make the investment Toyota made in Lexus. We got a bunch of press releases and hot air and the ZDX.
Thus they end up where they began.
I've said it a million times, no one wants expensive Acuras. They have not built their brand to a level where people will GLADLY part with their money for them. In contrast, BMW, Benz, Lexus has the brand power to command premium prices.
Acura should then bring back the RSX, bring the CSX and bring the names back and just be a great 22k-42k brand. NOTHING WRONG with that.
I just fear its too late and in 2010, they will move from 4th to 6th in sales.
The 1.6EL started at Cdn$18k back in 1997 (With a base, Premium and Sport model)
The 1.7EL started at Cdn$21k back in 2001. Still competitive. Touring and Premium models w/ Premium adding wood trim, leather and power moonroof among others
The CSX started at Cdn$25k in 2006 but has since risen to $27k and now the base model is no longer available. A Tech Pack brings nav and HIDs (formerly standard) and is close to Cdn$30k.
I'm sorry but an Accord EX-L with a 190hp is available for $30k, so is a Camry XLE. Adding nav to those two cars adds about $2k.
Granted, the Civic has also risen in price and for the first time, you can get leather in a Canadian Civic which begs the question, why the CSX? Paddle shifters? black leather interior? the "A" on the hood?
12-08-09, 11:57 PM
#72
Lexus Test Driver
Exactly..they HAVE to comply there is no choice. Acura told them we are going upmarket, fix your dealerships to match where we are going. Now they aren't going anywhere but back downmarket.
Salesmen are pissed too. There is more commission on higher priced cars than lower priced ones. If you haven't heard, they are pretty pissed about the beak and BEGGING dealerships to paint them. Thing is Acura DOES NOT want the beaks painted, its their "new corporate face". Salesman will tell you instantly the beak turns people away immediately and they have an even bigger uphill hill to climb. They are the majority, the minority of people like the new styling.
A mess all over.
Salesmen are pissed too. There is more commission on higher priced cars than lower priced ones. If you haven't heard, they are pretty pissed about the beak and BEGGING dealerships to paint them. Thing is Acura DOES NOT want the beaks painted, its their "new corporate face". Salesman will tell you instantly the beak turns people away immediately and they have an even bigger uphill hill to climb. They are the majority, the minority of people like the new styling.
A mess all over.
Seriously, I haven't been to an Acura dealership in a few years, so I cannot comfirm the above. So are you saying they are pissed behind closed doors? Or is this all out in the open when customers inquire?
12-09-09, 04:39 AM
#73
Pole Position
I've never met or spoken to a salesman that did not promote their products like they weren't the best. Usually, everything on their lot is better than all the others and things are so good we haven't been discounting them much, blah blah blah. (But today... for you....if you are serious about buying...)
Seriously, I haven't been to an Acura dealership in a few years, so I cannot comfirm the above. So are you saying they are pissed behind closed doors? Or is this all out in the open when customers inquire?
Seriously, I haven't been to an Acura dealership in a few years, so I cannot comfirm the above. So are you saying they are pissed behind closed doors? Or is this all out in the open when customers inquire?
12-09-09, 05:19 AM
#74
Lexus Test Driver
I don't see why Acura dealers are so upset. For some time, Acura has not announced any new products other than the ZDX. So why would a dealership think they needed to embark on major improvements? My take? Most haven't embarked on anything. It's been no secret Acura has not had anything in the oven for some time. Hell, anyone can follow internet boards to see nothing was in the pipeline. If a dealership went through the trouble to upgrade based on a standard corporate promise, then they deserve to be suffering. Every manufacturer pumps up their crystal ball predictions, it's part of selling your product. Whether you have new products coming or not, you try to keep people energetic and optimistic.
They are willing to try anything as long as its free of doesnt cost them too much. Its almost like Honda cut back on a lot of spending for Acura. Pretty soon, Acura will be sating they are happy to be a tier three luxury car company and that it was their plans all along
Last edited by The G Man; 12-09-09 at 11:43 AM.