Acura: Tier 1 goal abandoned..."Smart luxury" in (Sub TSX coming, hybrids)
12-09-09, 05:24 PM
#91
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Sorry but they are dead and it was nice knowing you.
12-09-09, 05:25 PM
#92
Lexus Fanatic
That's subjective since there are no official guidelines on length, width, wheelbase, track or weight for "compacts", but Acura knows where their price points put them in terms of competition.
12-09-09, 05:27 PM
#93
Lexus Fanatic
12-09-09, 05:27 PM
#94
Lexus Fanatic
In theory, SH-AWD is actually a simple concept, though I agree that the press (and Acura's advertising) makes it sound complex.....and, mechanically, it is not a simple system. But, its main function, while mechanically complex, can be summed up in one sentence.....on cornering, yaw/steering sensors, through the differential, feed more torque to the wheels on the outside of the turn and less to those on the inside, thereby increasing the turn rate and lessening understeer.
12-09-09, 05:34 PM
#95
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In theory, SH-AWD is actually a simple concept, though I agree that the press (and Acura's advertising) makes it sound complex.....and, mechanically, it is not a simple system. But, its main function, while mechanically complex, can be summed up in one sentence.....on cornering, yaw/steering sensors, through the differential, feed more torque to the wheels on the outside of the turn and less to those on the inside, thereby increasing the turn rate and lessening understeer.
It was a blown opportunity.
Add to that most people don't give a squat about ATTESA, Quattro, SHAWD, etc etc...
They just want to know if it has AWD or not if they want that feature.
12-09-09, 05:34 PM
#96
Lexus Fanatic
Legally, for Government purposes, the terms subcompact, compact, mid-sized, and full-sized is determined by the EPA, based on interior volume, not exterior dimensions. But, on a practical level, most of us (and, I assume most of us here on CAR CHAT) tend to associate vehicle classifications by exterior size.
12-09-09, 05:39 PM
#97
Lexus Fanatic
Legally, for Government purposes, the terms subcompact, compact, mid-sized, and full-sized is determined by the EPA, based on interior volume, not exterior dimensions. But on a practical level, most of us (and, I assume most of us here on CAT CHAT) tend to associate vehicle classifications by exterior size.
Facts: length of 185.6" and wheelbase of 106.6" and width 72.4" and track 62.2" (nice wide track, short wheelbase, long overhangs, close to the compact A4 sizing)
EPA market class: TSX - "upscale sedan" which covers a broad range of interior volumes
EPA size class: TSX - "compact"
Last edited by IS-SV; 12-09-09 at 06:11 PM. Reason: added clarification on EPA market classes and size classes
12-09-09, 08:42 PM
#98
Lexus Test Driver
Let's not forget the ZDX is shaped like a hatchback. Hatchbacks are another dead segment with a failed U.S. sales history.
If I were in charge at Acura, I would have created a sleek new CL, cutting into the G37c or A5/S5 catagory.
If I were in charge at Acura, I would have created a sleek new CL, cutting into the G37c or A5/S5 catagory.
12-10-09, 06:28 AM
#99
Lexus Test Driver
And it was the best system for sometime (BMW, Porsche, Audi now have comparable systems) but my point stands. SH-AWD sounds like rice for one and two it did NOTHING to change or alert the general public it was special.
It was a blown opportunity.
Add to that most people don't give a squat about ATTESA, Quattro, SHAWD, etc etc...
They just want to know if it has AWD or not if they want that feature.
It was a blown opportunity.
Add to that most people don't give a squat about ATTESA, Quattro, SHAWD, etc etc...
They just want to know if it has AWD or not if they want that feature.
12-10-09, 09:52 AM
#100
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Wow, total fail, and I mean that literally. Despite the hopes, dreams, and ambitions they had about reaching Tier 1 status with the Acura brand, Honda has totally FAILED in that regard. What an absolute disgrace, especially as I was once a Honda fan long ago.
So now they are going to back to what they were before ... value luxury, except they are calling it "smart luxury".
I will give credit to Honda for one thing, and that is they finally realize the truth that Acura will NEVER be taken seriously as a luxury brand. I say this because Honda will likely never stop being stubborn and resistant to adding things like RWD and V8 to the Acura brand.
Credit to Honda for realizing Acura is nothing more than "Honda plus". The truth sure does hurt in this case.
It's about time, they needed a new V6 engine design years ago. The worst part is that the new V6 is still "in development". I bet you anything that Toyota will release a new V6 engine design as a replacement for the GR by the time Honda unveils their new V6 design. That would not surprise me, based on how LONG it took them to develop a 6-speed transmission. It's only showing up in products now, and it will take years before it's common among Honda/Acura products.
I predict we won't see this new Honda V6 until 2013-2014 at the earliest. I will be quite surprised if it debuts before that.
So now they are going to back to what they were before ... value luxury, except they are calling it "smart luxury".
I will give credit to Honda for one thing, and that is they finally realize the truth that Acura will NEVER be taken seriously as a luxury brand. I say this because Honda will likely never stop being stubborn and resistant to adding things like RWD and V8 to the Acura brand.
Credit to Honda for realizing Acura is nothing more than "Honda plus". The truth sure does hurt in this case.
I predict we won't see this new Honda V6 until 2013-2014 at the earliest. I will be quite surprised if it debuts before that.
Last edited by TRDFantasy; 12-10-09 at 09:55 AM.
12-10-09, 11:54 AM
#103
Lexus Test Driver
I wouldn't go as far as to say Acura has been a "total failure." They have had some great cars and designs since the beginning. They are just in a major slump right now, one in which they can pull out of if they get their act together.
The problem with the SH-AWD pretty much lies within the name. The general public and the average soccer mom/grandma doesn't care about what all the letters stand for. Perhaps single titles such as "4-Motion" and "Quattro" are easier to grab.
The problem with the SH-AWD pretty much lies within the name. The general public and the average soccer mom/grandma doesn't care about what all the letters stand for. Perhaps single titles such as "4-Motion" and "Quattro" are easier to grab.
12-10-09, 02:11 PM
#104
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Honda being an extremely conservative company is not going to pour hundreds of millions into Acura during this economic slump just so people on here can perceive it as a "Tier 1" luxury brand. While I think Acura needs a lot of reorganization, it's understandable if Honda is being a bit miserly at the moment. (I do dislike the direction the new CEO is heading, the former CEO was far more ballsy)
12-10-09, 02:22 PM
#105
Lexus Fanatic
Conservative?....I don't agree Honda is a "conservative" company. I would call a fair amount of the Acura styling, especially the parrot-beak grilles and the TL's rear-end, anything BUT conservative.
And, if anything, V8s and RWD, which Honda and Acura generally stay away from, is the very definition of conservatism.....that is the way that old American cars were done for decades. Honda, by moving away from that, and helping to perfect transverse-engines and FWD in the 1970's, moved AWAY from conservatism (though the basic idea, of course, goes back to the 1959 Mini).
Perhaps, though (and I'll at least partially agree with you on this), the only area where Acura can be considered "conservative", by today's standards, is by not going after the $100,000 class like Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, and some other luxury brands have done. In that sense, Acura is joined by Infiniti and Lincoln.
Last edited by mmarshall; 12-10-09 at 02:32 PM.