Saab is down :(
12-21-09, 05:39 PM
#61
Moderator
12-21-09, 05:43 PM
#62
Guest
Posts: n/a
Yup. I am not happy Saab is dead or any car brand. It just means less originality around. However this is the future predicted by many. Only a few auto brands around.
Just wait until the Chinese brands come around. This is called capitalism and the strong survive (or get bailed out, which is a showing of strength with relationships).
The auto industry is WAY to competitive to TAKE YOUR PRECIOUS TIME trying to fix your image, cars, dealerships, training etc. There MUST be a SENSE OF URGENCY!!
Just wait until the Chinese brands come around. This is called capitalism and the strong survive (or get bailed out, which is a showing of strength with relationships).
The auto industry is WAY to competitive to TAKE YOUR PRECIOUS TIME trying to fix your image, cars, dealerships, training etc. There MUST be a SENSE OF URGENCY!!
12-21-09, 05:48 PM
#63
Lexus Fanatic
So...back to Saab. I agree that even with Japenese competition, Saab's downfall was more of a combination of their own small size and mismanagement by GM.
12-21-09, 05:55 PM
#64
Guest
Posts: n/a
The main reason for the success of Lexus, as I see it, was an unusual dedication to quality and perfection in their vehicles from Day One. Toyota and Nissan, when they introduced their luxury divisions, were determined to produce quality luxury vehicles at prices which undercut the Germans......and, of course, fill in the gap left by Acura and its lack of truly large V8 sedans. Mercedes, of course, produced what was probably the world standard in quality and safety at that time (this was before their vehicles started the well-known reliability drop), but, with their high production expenses, simply could not compete with Lexus/Infiniti pricing. However, not everything at Lexus and Infiniti was perfection.....the Lexus ES250 and Infiniti Q45 were both sales disasters. The ES was able to recover; the Q45 was not.
So...back to Saab. I agree that even with Japenese competition, Saab's downfall was more of a combination of their own small size and mismanagement by GM.
So...back to Saab. I agree that even with Japenese competition, Saab's downfall was more of a combination of their own small size and mismanagement by GM.
Jack is a great guy (the writer) but I disagree with using Lexus here as the one that killed Saab.
If Lexus didn't exist, Saab would STILL be DEAD.
12-21-09, 06:25 PM
#65
Lexus Fanatic
Of course, Volvo itself is not the world's strongest car company right now either, but, for the moment, seems to be in a better position than Saab.
12-21-09, 06:31 PM
#66
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: somewhere out there
Posts: 1,227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Actually, to an extent, it could be argued that Volvo also helped kill off Saab. When Volvo stopped building shoe-box-styled vehicles in the 1990's and branched out into FWD (the 1Gen 1997 C70 coupe, IMO, was an especially beautiful car), they probably picked up a number of Saab's Nordic, FWD-minded customers as well.
Of course, Volvo itself is not the world's strongest car company right now either, but, for the moment, seems to be in a better position than Saab.
Of course, Volvo itself is not the world's strongest car company right now either, but, for the moment, seems to be in a better position than Saab.
I've even considered buying a Volvo more than once and that's not something I can say about a Saab...
Volvo's international sales are higher than Lexus's and their US sales aren't too bad either. (I think the S80 outsells the GS?)
in the USA their sales are only above Saab
12-21-09, 09:02 PM
#68
Lexus Fanatic
That's just about what my blue Outback looked like (18" of measured snow at my place, with 2-3 foot drifts), except that the front of the car, facing the northeast wind, had snow completely drifted over the front end.....you could not see the front of the car at all; only the medium blue on the sides. The amount of snow from this storm was one of the classics here.
I didn't post images because I don't have a digital camera or the skills to download one.....yes, I know, it's one of my weaknesses)
But, now, to clean the salt and dirt off...........and, of course, back on topic (Saab).
I didn't post images because I don't have a digital camera or the skills to download one.....yes, I know, it's one of my weaknesses)
But, now, to clean the salt and dirt off...........and, of course, back on topic (Saab).
). The success of digital photography is due to ease of use. Yes snow in the high Sierra mountains in CA is serious business, steep roads, huge storms for which I use specialized vehicles (currently a Jeep, previously 2 other Jeeps, ML, Hummer, Highlander, RAV4 and Subies and Explorers of family members). For frequent winter trips to the Sierras, AWD and 4WD is more of a necessity than a convenience.
And Saab has nothing over the main competition for snow condition driving. When I replied that the choice of Subie over Saab was a good decision, I meant not only for all-weather capabilities, but also for resale value, durability and reliability reasons too.
Last edited by IS-SV; 12-21-09 at 09:06 PM. Reason: sp
12-22-09, 08:30 AM
#69
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Park Ridge IL
Posts: 2,485
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
12-22-09, 09:23 AM
#70
Driver
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Single
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bless the Q45, it was simply one of the best cars that nobody bought.
I do hope the successor actually moves from concept to production when the economy picks back up. A 4 Door Essence would be remarkable.
GM is responsible for Saab's demise, simple as that. Another brand they completely mismanaged.
I do hope the successor actually moves from concept to production when the economy picks back up. A 4 Door Essence would be remarkable.
GM is responsible for Saab's demise, simple as that. Another brand they completely mismanaged.
12-22-09, 10:40 AM
#71
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: somewhere out there
Posts: 1,227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can't find any information about 2008 or 2009 global sales but Volvo sold 459,000 cars worldwide in 2007, so they are still a pretty healthy automaker unlike Saab (which was my point). Volvo isn't really a luxury brand in Europe or anywhere so I'm sure that Lexus is the #4 luxury brand globally behind the Germans. Anyway, I agree with you that Saab really didn't have much hope.
12-22-09, 10:54 AM
#73
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: somewhere out there
Posts: 1,227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
12-22-09, 10:56 AM
#74
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: somewhere out there
Posts: 1,227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
12-22-09, 11:07 AM
#75
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: somewhere out there
Posts: 1,227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BMW/Audi/Volvo to benefit most from Saab's demise (not Lexus)
PRESS RELEASE
AutoTrader.com Cross-Shopping Data Shows BMW Top Cross-Shopped Vehicle Among Saab Shoppers
ATLANTA, Dec. 18 /PRNewswire/ -- With the announcement today that GM will shutter its Saab division, BMW may be a winner, according to cross-shopping data from AutoTrader.com, the ultimate automotive marketplace. Thirty-three percent of Saab shoppers also looked at BMW vehicles while researching and comparing new and used vehicles on AutoTrader.com, a larger percentage than looked at any other brand.
Audi, another German manufacturer, may also see some new customers, as 31% of Saab shoppers also looked at Audi models listed for sale on AutoTrader.com.
"The top four brands Saab shoppers also looked at while on our site were all European, showing some preference for European styling and handling among Saab shoppers," said AutoTrader.com President and CEO Chip Perry. "As the Saab brand is shut down, it is likely many of those buyers will gravitate to those other European brands, although our shopper activity on AutoTrader.com shows Saab buyers are also interested in some American and Japanese brands."
The top 10 brands that Saab shoppers also looked at on AutoTrader.com during 2009 and the percentage of Saab shoppers that also looked at those brands are:
1. BMW - 33%
2. Audi - 31%
3. Volvo - 29%
4. Volkswagen - 27%
5. Toyota - 27%
6. Nissan - 26%
7. Honda - 24%
8. Mercedes-Benz - 24%
9. Ford - 23%
10. Chevrolet - 22%
AutoTrader.com Cross-Shopping Data Shows BMW Top Cross-Shopped Vehicle Among Saab Shoppers
ATLANTA, Dec. 18 /PRNewswire/ -- With the announcement today that GM will shutter its Saab division, BMW may be a winner, according to cross-shopping data from AutoTrader.com, the ultimate automotive marketplace. Thirty-three percent of Saab shoppers also looked at BMW vehicles while researching and comparing new and used vehicles on AutoTrader.com, a larger percentage than looked at any other brand.
Audi, another German manufacturer, may also see some new customers, as 31% of Saab shoppers also looked at Audi models listed for sale on AutoTrader.com.
"The top four brands Saab shoppers also looked at while on our site were all European, showing some preference for European styling and handling among Saab shoppers," said AutoTrader.com President and CEO Chip Perry. "As the Saab brand is shut down, it is likely many of those buyers will gravitate to those other European brands, although our shopper activity on AutoTrader.com shows Saab buyers are also interested in some American and Japanese brands."
The top 10 brands that Saab shoppers also looked at on AutoTrader.com during 2009 and the percentage of Saab shoppers that also looked at those brands are:
1. BMW - 33%
2. Audi - 31%
3. Volvo - 29%
4. Volkswagen - 27%
5. Toyota - 27%
6. Nissan - 26%
7. Honda - 24%
8. Mercedes-Benz - 24%
9. Ford - 23%
10. Chevrolet - 22%