1SICKREVIEW: 2010 HS 250h base
12-19-09, 04:01 PM
#16
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
12-19-09, 04:01 PM
#17
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
great review mike, thanks for sharing. it does seem like an ideal suburban/city luxury car.
12-19-09, 05:18 PM
#19
Lexus Fanatic
I agree that it is usually better and more comprehensive without a salesperson along, except when you are dealing with a complex vehicle with confusing controls that you have little or no previous experience with. Fortunately, I am able to do a lot of reviews without the salespeople along, especially in places that know me, have dealt with me, or see that I'm responsible enough to go out alone. Some places, though, have an insurance requirement for the sales staff to go along, and can't get out of it.
Last edited by IS-SV; 12-19-09 at 05:21 PM. Reason: sp
12-19-09, 05:23 PM
#20
Lexus Fanatic
12-19-09, 06:10 PM
#24
Lexus Champion
The mileage doesn't seem to be that good in this car. Almost every reviewer get's about 30 mpg on average. Not bad, but I don't see what the point of the HS is when the V6 ES get's about the same mileage (someone reported near 40mpg on the highway in an ES here), and in the real world the RX hybrid gets the same mileage too (and the RX weighs more and has over 100 more horsepower to boot).
Could Lexus have gotten the same gas mileage as the HS in an ES hybrid with the RX's powerplant? The regular ES weighs over 500lbs less than the regular RX, it's more aerodynamic, and it's more fuel efficient already, so I could imagine Lexus getting some stellar numbers from a 300hp ES hybrid (and no one would complain about lack of power at that point either).
Could Lexus have gotten the same gas mileage as the HS in an ES hybrid with the RX's powerplant? The regular ES weighs over 500lbs less than the regular RX, it's more aerodynamic, and it's more fuel efficient already, so I could imagine Lexus getting some stellar numbers from a 300hp ES hybrid (and no one would complain about lack of power at that point either).
Mike -- can you try a 10-15 cruise at about 42-50mph and see what the instant MPG shows?
12-19-09, 07:43 PM
#25
Lexus Champion
Great review Mike. I like the switch you called " Oh No "...
. At first I feel so so about the HS,but it grows on me after a while. I'm glad you get the change to drive it for a few days,but I wish they should get the fully loaded HS as a loaner.
. At first I feel so so about the HS,but it grows on me after a while. I'm glad you get the change to drive it for a few days,but I wish they should get the fully loaded HS as a loaner.
12-19-09, 08:05 PM
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Thanks everyone, I will try to answer some remarks/questions.
Thanks, let me clarify. I find high speed cornering easier to do instantly in a new FWD car like this than the RWD IS. Mind you it was wet as well. Which is more fun? The IS. That said I REALLY was expecting this to handle like an ES, even more so a Camry or Corolla. It handles VERY well and I credit its Euro platform. 
No doubt, exterior is challenging but I understand why. It is a TALL car and you sit HIGH inside. It would be hard to make it look different/better/sleeker and keep the same high driving position. 
CJ, you make a great observation and its one I thought of after I read this. Today I got the EPA estimate 35 MPG in and out. I got 39 MPG on the highway when I reset it as I entered the freeway. I have to agree 100% that the RX 450h at 30 MPG seems even MORE like a techno marvel as it weighs 4500lbs and has a higher drag (.37 vs .27) and over 100 more hp. It goes back to my "RX 450h is a wonder" thread that we debated about. It truly is something special.
Sales of the more expensive RX 450h and HS 250h are neck and neck. THat says a lot. Also with the RX, you get that cargo room and more space.
Thanks dude.
Even with the armrest extended all the way, it does not touch the dash. I'll tyy and take a pic for you.
I agree with you. I think if it started at 30k, it would sell better. Starting at 34k is more than a base
TSX by 5 grand
G37 by a grand or so
only a grand less than a TL
same price as an ES 350
only a grand less than an IS
price of an uplevel Buck Lacrosse
etc etc
At 40-45k its tough for me BUT BUT BUT it does have some standard and optional technology most other cars in this price range simply do not offer. This gear is GEARED toward young techies.
Great write up!! I'm taller so I find the seat to not offer enough settings. More on this in my next post.
Bingo...if you want luxury, the Lexus experience, tech, more MPG..its GREAT for it. You won't win any car shows in it
Car has to break in after 5k miles or so. I'll try your cruise question!
Thanks dude!! I agree 100%. Seems C. McHale got an HS loaner with remote touch!
I am unsure why you entered this thread as these are your comments on other Lexus styling...
So what exactly to you is Lexus style?
You beef in my threads here
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...ml#post4812160
and here
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...ml#post4799065
So to be honest, there is going to be no right answer for you. You are here solely to pick apart the HS.
Thanks, Mike.....nice write-up.
You actually found the high-speed cornering better than a RWD IS250?
Your findings with the car are pretty much (though not exactly) the same as mine. The reason, of course, that it is so quiet at start-up is that the electrics program themselves at first, and then, even when you take off, the gas engine doesn't come on till it's needed for charging or power. For the first mile or so (depending on the charge state), you're essentially driving a luxury-grade golf cart.
You actually found the high-speed cornering better than a RWD IS250?
Your findings with the car are pretty much (though not exactly) the same as mine. The reason, of course, that it is so quiet at start-up is that the electrics program themselves at first, and then, even when you take off, the gas engine doesn't come on till it's needed for charging or power. For the first mile or so (depending on the charge state), you're essentially driving a luxury-grade golf cart.
The mileage doesn't seem to be that good in this car. Almost every reviewer get's about 30 mpg on average. Not bad, but I don't see what the point of the HS is when the V6 ES get's about the same mileage (someone reported near 40mpg on the highway in an ES here), and in the real world the RX hybrid gets the same mileage too (and the RX weighs more and has over 100 more horsepower to boot).
Could Lexus have gotten the same gas mileage as the HS in an ES hybrid with the RX's powerplant? The regular ES weighs over 500lbs less than the regular RX, it's more aerodynamic, and it's more fuel efficient already, so I could imagine Lexus getting some stellar numbers from a 300hp ES hybrid (and no one would complain about lack of power at that point either).
Could Lexus have gotten the same gas mileage as the HS in an ES hybrid with the RX's powerplant? The regular ES weighs over 500lbs less than the regular RX, it's more aerodynamic, and it's more fuel efficient already, so I could imagine Lexus getting some stellar numbers from a 300hp ES hybrid (and no one would complain about lack of power at that point either).
Sales of the more expensive RX 450h and HS 250h are neck and neck. THat says a lot. Also with the RX, you get that cargo room and more space.
Even with the armrest extended all the way, it does not touch the dash. I'll tyy and take a pic for you.
TSX by 5 grand
G37 by a grand or so
only a grand less than a TL
same price as an ES 350
only a grand less than an IS
price of an uplevel Buck Lacrosse
etc etc
At 40-45k its tough for me BUT BUT BUT it does have some standard and optional technology most other cars in this price range simply do not offer. This gear is GEARED toward young techies.
I was one of the early detractors of this car, as the exterior styling and interior looked just seemed cheap for a Lexus.
But I got one as a loaner when my ES 330 was in for some quick service, and I can somewhat echo the thoughts here. The car impressed me more than I thought I would be. Outside of a lack of wood, I felt the overall interior quality (talking materials here) was a significant step up compared to my ES330.
The buttons all have a nice substantial tactile feel, something that really lacks and feels extremely cheap in the 330. Quite a few soft touch surfaces and the sun visors felt nice and plush. The layout of the dash was logical and intuitive IMO.
My HS had remote touch, which still seemed a lot better than some of the competing systems out there, but I think my favorite part of the car was how the seat and steering wheel would slide back to more easily let you out once you turned the car off. One interesting detail I noted when getting back in is the seat and steering wheel did not return to position until the seatbelt was locked. Pretty smart, safety-oriented design there.
Exterior styling isn't too bad up close, and doesn't really look like a Corolla. However, it doesn't look much like a Lexus to me either, beyond the logos.
As someone who is...um, height challenged, I will say this car made me feel like I was sitting in a hole the entire time I was driving it. Even with the seat boosted as high as it could go. Based on this, I had a lot of trouble getting truly comfortable driving it, despite the nicely cushioned seats and excellent steering wheel. Unfortunately, were I considering an HS, this one fault would probably cause me not to buy it. It also shares some annoying quirkiness with its Prius cousin.
Final thought: Although the fuel economy isn't nearly as good as the Prius, I think the HS more than makes up for it for its premium-quality interior and competent handling. If you're not height-challenged, take a look at this car, because its quality might surprise you.
But I got one as a loaner when my ES 330 was in for some quick service, and I can somewhat echo the thoughts here. The car impressed me more than I thought I would be. Outside of a lack of wood, I felt the overall interior quality (talking materials here) was a significant step up compared to my ES330.
The buttons all have a nice substantial tactile feel, something that really lacks and feels extremely cheap in the 330. Quite a few soft touch surfaces and the sun visors felt nice and plush. The layout of the dash was logical and intuitive IMO.
My HS had remote touch, which still seemed a lot better than some of the competing systems out there, but I think my favorite part of the car was how the seat and steering wheel would slide back to more easily let you out once you turned the car off. One interesting detail I noted when getting back in is the seat and steering wheel did not return to position until the seatbelt was locked. Pretty smart, safety-oriented design there.
Exterior styling isn't too bad up close, and doesn't really look like a Corolla. However, it doesn't look much like a Lexus to me either, beyond the logos.
As someone who is...um, height challenged, I will say this car made me feel like I was sitting in a hole the entire time I was driving it. Even with the seat boosted as high as it could go. Based on this, I had a lot of trouble getting truly comfortable driving it, despite the nicely cushioned seats and excellent steering wheel. Unfortunately, were I considering an HS, this one fault would probably cause me not to buy it. It also shares some annoying quirkiness with its Prius cousin.
Final thought: Although the fuel economy isn't nearly as good as the Prius, I think the HS more than makes up for it for its premium-quality interior and competent handling. If you're not height-challenged, take a look at this car, because its quality might surprise you.
Great write up!! I'm taller so I find the seat to not offer enough settings. More on this in my next post.
I am unsure why you entered this thread as these are your comments on other Lexus styling...
So what exactly to you is Lexus style?
You beef in my threads here
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...ml#post4812160
and here
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...ml#post4799065
So to be honest, there is going to be no right answer for you. You are here solely to pick apart the HS.
12-19-09, 08:14 PM
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Okay some other notes I didn't mention.
1. I am 6"5, 230 and like EVERY FWD car I have driven, I cannot get comfy like I can in a RWD car I don't care HOW BIG the fwd car is. Its the FWD packaging. The seats feel like the traditional ES/old RX feel so yeah they are nice if you are coming up from a Civic but for me, its not a great seat. What is DIFFERENT is the seat has a raised higher back and there is some neat detailing in the seat with lines. I do worry about dirt in there over time, especially with this light color.
2. The brakes are INCREDIBLE. I am not joking. I actually looked at them to make sure they were not a BBK or something. This is the first Lexus hybrid I've driven where the brakes feel NORMAL and not ELECTRIC. Feel is FANTASTIC, there is no on/off feel. This is by far one of my favorite things of the car. I am SHOCKED at the brakes. Again I credit the Euro Avensis platform.
3. The cruise control when pressed has a small green odometer on the dash. WHen you "Set" it another light saying "SET" appears. I have not seen this on other Lexus.
4. I don't mean to be funny but maybe I am PARANOID but I find myself actually messing with the floormat. I've NEVER had issues with Lexus floormats. I have found this one "moving" around. It is tied to the floor with a tag on it. Its puzzling so I think is all the stupid hype over it. The mat is not that big.
5. From the drivers seat the side view mirrors have intergrated signals but I cannot see them blinking from the seat. Not sure why that struck me as odd.
6. The front window reminds me of the RX 300. My G/F has commented how this car feels like a SUV inside with the high feel. It also has grown on her. The drivers position is excellent for both of us. There is a small window ahead of the door windows for a more airy feel.
7. Lexus paint is incredible. The shine and luster and depth on this car is fantastic. It never feels like an econo car.
1. I am 6"5, 230 and like EVERY FWD car I have driven, I cannot get comfy like I can in a RWD car I don't care HOW BIG the fwd car is. Its the FWD packaging. The seats feel like the traditional ES/old RX feel so yeah they are nice if you are coming up from a Civic but for me, its not a great seat. What is DIFFERENT is the seat has a raised higher back and there is some neat detailing in the seat with lines. I do worry about dirt in there over time, especially with this light color.
2. The brakes are INCREDIBLE. I am not joking. I actually looked at them to make sure they were not a BBK or something. This is the first Lexus hybrid I've driven where the brakes feel NORMAL and not ELECTRIC. Feel is FANTASTIC, there is no on/off feel. This is by far one of my favorite things of the car. I am SHOCKED at the brakes. Again I credit the Euro Avensis platform.
3. The cruise control when pressed has a small green odometer on the dash. WHen you "Set" it another light saying "SET" appears. I have not seen this on other Lexus.
4. I don't mean to be funny but maybe I am PARANOID but I find myself actually messing with the floormat. I've NEVER had issues with Lexus floormats. I have found this one "moving" around. It is tied to the floor with a tag on it. Its puzzling so I think is all the stupid hype over it. The mat is not that big.
5. From the drivers seat the side view mirrors have intergrated signals but I cannot see them blinking from the seat. Not sure why that struck me as odd.
6. The front window reminds me of the RX 300. My G/F has commented how this car feels like a SUV inside with the high feel. It also has grown on her. The drivers position is excellent for both of us. There is a small window ahead of the door windows for a more airy feel.
7. Lexus paint is incredible. The shine and luster and depth on this car is fantastic. It never feels like an econo car.
12-19-09, 08:44 PM
#28
Lexus Fanatic
2. The brakes are INCREDIBLE. I am not joking. I actually looked at them to make sure they were not a BBK or something. This is the first Lexus hybrid I've driven where the brakes feel NORMAL and not ELECTRIC. Feel is FANTASTIC, there is no on/off feel. This is by far one of my favorite things of the car. I am SHOCKED at the brakes. Again I credit the Euro Avensis platform.
3. The cruise control when pressed has a small green odometer on the dash. WHen you "Set" it another light saying "SET" appears. I have not seen this on other Lexus.
7. Lexus paint is incredible. The shine and luster and depth on this car is fantastic. It never feels like an econo car.
Last edited by mmarshall; 12-19-09 at 08:49 PM.
12-19-09, 08:53 PM
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Mike, I am assuming its b/c the hood is very short with the engine mounted the way it is. It really reminds me of the RX 300 seating position. I might take comparison pics to better explain.
Here is a write-up I did on the HS "grill"..
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/hs-...evolution.html
Here is a write-up I did on the HS "grill"..
There have been more than a few posts here and elsewhere concerning the HS grill and some similarities with others and why Lexus uses it.
The first is research has shown MOST hybrid owners do want to "stick out" proudly they drive a hybrid. Lexus hybrids have gone from hardly any differentation with only different wheels, to blue emblems and now different grills, LEDs, What some of you may not know is Lexus has flirted and shown this grill design for over a decade with their concepts...please see below...
This is the biggest pic I could find but way back in 1997 Lexus had the HPS (High Performance Sedan) concept, which was basically a 95% done 2GS. You can see the fat horizontal slants in the grill. The production grill was changed to vertical slants.
The Lexus LF-S was the first "L-finesse" car and also the first with a V-8/hybrid. It also was a preview of the 3GS. Again the grill is flat and horizontal. It debuted in 2003.
Next was the LF-C...supposedly a concept for the next IS. You can see a similar grill. The show car was seen in 2004 but brainstorming began in 2002.
http://www.lexus.com/pursuit/
While not having "slants" exactly, you can clearly see a grill cutout on the first LF-A which debuted in 2005.
Later on in 2005, the preview of the LS came and it debuted as the LF-Sh and it also had a V-8 with hybrid power. You can see the grill evolving here
Lexus research has shown owners and prospective buyers of hybrids DO like standing out (there are those that don't but they are the minority). Thus the grill finally makes its face on the HS proudly as a hybrid and with the hybrid "Blue" emblems to match.
The new LF-ch has a horizontal slant...I postulate only "one' since its an entry level car.
Now the 2010 GS and LS have updated hybrid horizontal slants.
Only the RX 450h is left and I assume its time is coming.
I'm not here to explain if I like it or not or if YOU should like it or not. I'm here to clarify misconceptions of this new Hybrid grill, its origination and now its roll out.
Thanks
Mike
The first is research has shown MOST hybrid owners do want to "stick out" proudly they drive a hybrid. Lexus hybrids have gone from hardly any differentation with only different wheels, to blue emblems and now different grills, LEDs, What some of you may not know is Lexus has flirted and shown this grill design for over a decade with their concepts...please see below...
This is the biggest pic I could find but way back in 1997 Lexus had the HPS (High Performance Sedan) concept, which was basically a 95% done 2GS. You can see the fat horizontal slants in the grill. The production grill was changed to vertical slants.
The Lexus LF-S was the first "L-finesse" car and also the first with a V-8/hybrid. It also was a preview of the 3GS. Again the grill is flat and horizontal. It debuted in 2003.
Next was the LF-C...supposedly a concept for the next IS. You can see a similar grill. The show car was seen in 2004 but brainstorming began in 2002.
http://www.lexus.com/pursuit/
While not having "slants" exactly, you can clearly see a grill cutout on the first LF-A which debuted in 2005.
Later on in 2005, the preview of the LS came and it debuted as the LF-Sh and it also had a V-8 with hybrid power. You can see the grill evolving here
Lexus research has shown owners and prospective buyers of hybrids DO like standing out (there are those that don't but they are the minority). Thus the grill finally makes its face on the HS proudly as a hybrid and with the hybrid "Blue" emblems to match.
The new LF-ch has a horizontal slant...I postulate only "one' since its an entry level car.
Now the 2010 GS and LS have updated hybrid horizontal slants.
Only the RX 450h is left and I assume its time is coming.
I'm not here to explain if I like it or not or if YOU should like it or not. I'm here to clarify misconceptions of this new Hybrid grill, its origination and now its roll out.
Thanks
Mike
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/hs-...evolution.html
12-19-09, 09:33 PM
#30
Nice write-up Mike! Thanks!
I've had the opportunity to test both the base and fully loaded model (there are only 3 models in Canada - Premium, Premium Sport and Ultra-Premium) but our loaded model is nowhere near yours (no LKA, PCS, APGS, DRCC, WideView.. basically no Tech Package).
No. 3 on your list. I think it's Toyota's new setup. It's the same setup on my Prius so it must be a 2010 thing.
I've noticed that power delivery is smoooooth. PWR Mode in the HS is like a Rolls-Royce - you get a wave of power. In the Prius, PWR Mode is like a Bentley. It kinda kicks you back, chirps the eco-tyres and goes. The Prius one "feels" more powerful but the HS is definitely the one if you need to get somewhere yet keep the people in the back comfortable. I love the leather-stitched dashboard but I thought the overhead assist grips were a bit cheap.
Handling is good though I managed to make the car jump when I cornered and hit a raised manhole cover (which I did not see) mid-corner. Braking is also straight and solid with little fuss.
I will also agree that it is very quiet and the hybrid powertrain is quite removed from the driver. I can't tell if the engine's on or off when I'm coasting. There's no kick when the engine fires up as you accelerate.
Rear seat space is also surprising. I was expecting something cramped like the IS but it is spacious back there!
I've had the opportunity to test both the base and fully loaded model (there are only 3 models in Canada - Premium, Premium Sport and Ultra-Premium) but our loaded model is nowhere near yours (no LKA, PCS, APGS, DRCC, WideView.. basically no Tech Package).
No. 3 on your list. I think it's Toyota's new setup. It's the same setup on my Prius so it must be a 2010 thing.
I've noticed that power delivery is smoooooth. PWR Mode in the HS is like a Rolls-Royce - you get a wave of power. In the Prius, PWR Mode is like a Bentley. It kinda kicks you back, chirps the eco-tyres and goes. The Prius one "feels" more powerful but the HS is definitely the one if you need to get somewhere yet keep the people in the back comfortable. I love the leather-stitched dashboard but I thought the overhead assist grips were a bit cheap.
Handling is good though I managed to make the car jump when I cornered and hit a raised manhole cover (which I did not see) mid-corner. Braking is also straight and solid with little fuss.
I will also agree that it is very quiet and the hybrid powertrain is quite removed from the driver. I can't tell if the engine's on or off when I'm coasting. There's no kick when the engine fires up as you accelerate.
Rear seat space is also surprising. I was expecting something cramped like the IS but it is spacious back there!