Best 7 passenger luxury SUVs for 40-50 K
12-31-09, 12:53 PM
#196
I know older Acura have problems with their clear coat peeling off and such when not taken care of. Then again, many Toyota cars suffered the same fate. You will not find many cars with thick OEM clear coats, which is why it's very scary for me to wetsand most of them. The factory does not give you much room for error.
As far as paint quality goes, it's just a matter of how well you maintain them. Anyone thinking they can leave their car out in the sun for 5 years and expect it to shine like new is sadly mistaken. Lexus paint jobs are indeed nicer for the most part (vs RSX, TSX, etc), but they do have their flaws also (chips easily). I wouldn't be too concern with paint quality when it comes to buying an Acura. They may not be the best, but they are certainly not at the bottom of the list.
As far as paint quality goes, it's just a matter of how well you maintain them. Anyone thinking they can leave their car out in the sun for 5 years and expect it to shine like new is sadly mistaken. Lexus paint jobs are indeed nicer for the most part (vs RSX, TSX, etc), but they do have their flaws also (chips easily). I wouldn't be too concern with paint quality when it comes to buying an Acura. They may not be the best, but they are certainly not at the bottom of the list.
12-31-09, 12:53 PM
#197
Lexus Champion
Any paint finish will look good when new, its how durable it is over time that determines a good paint job from a bad one, very few MB have ornage peels. Besides, MB is a much better vehicle than Acura in many other way besides the paint job. Like I said before, sometimes its what you cannot see in a vehicle that counts. Why do you think Acura can affort to sell a SUV with so much feature for so little. Its certainly not because of their low labor rate like the case with the Koreans. The savings have to come from somewhere. If you are perfectly happy with hidden low quality material, then by all means, ignore me. If you havent done so already
12-31-09, 02:19 PM
#198
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I have to sound like a Mercedes fanboy here for a second. 
How do you compare the "tank-like build quality" of an older Benz to a more modern one? I mean the true build quality of any vehicle is something that becomes apparent after long-term ownership - not a quick let's-check-out-the-car-at-the-dealer story. It seems that you just glance at a Mercedes cabin and come to a conclusion. I'm sorry, but that's the absolute worst way of judging a car.
Also, in the old days the concept of light-weight-materials for use in automobiles wasn't as widespread as it is today. This has the effect that modern vehicles feel lighter than older ones - and that is not a sign of poor build quality at all. It's simply an evolution in the process of building cars. The story is no different with Mercedes. My family used to own a 1980s 300SD Turbodiesel which had the traditional bank vault feel of many older cars. The '08 E230 which is my current ride feels lighter, but in no way does it feel cheaper or cheaply made.
I find it interesting that you say their new cars are "cheaply made". I take it you have plenty of experience with them then. Have you ever visited the Mercedes factory in Sindelfingen? I have. I live in Stuttgart and this city is dominated by Mercedes and Porsche. I've made it a point to visit their museums and their factories (still have to book the Porsche factory tour, though). I'm no expert on automotive construction, but what I saw in Sindelfingen was a high-tech factory with the latest robotics and probably construction techniques, too. Cheaply made? That's funny.
When you buy a Mercedes you're firstly interested owning the brand name and badge. That's part of the appeal of owning such a car. Hence the high price tag. Value has never been a Mercedes strength and it will probably never be.
I am fortunate enough to have experienced the new W204 C class and a last generation E230 and these have been great cars. I've had zero issues with them over my ownership years. And by the way, the interiors on both these cars are great. I know people here feel the C class cabin is cheap, but when you own the car, drive it daily and experience it the true quality of the cabin will come across. I have never felt the interior of my ex-C200 CDI was in any way cheap. Bland and conservative? Maybe. Cheap? No. In fact, the Audi A4 interior is no different: it just has a couple of extra chrome strips here and there. By the way, there are several A4 owners on other forums who've complained about the decrease in interior quality of their A4. One person owns both the new A4 and current C class - and guess which interior they find better? The C class. I'll try finding the thread on that particular forum for you. He describes his reasons quite thoroughly and offers a picture comparison, too.
I suppose at the end of the day it's all a subjective opinion. I personally feel that all interiors in the premium segment are good. There really is no interior that is better than another.
I think this is a twisted myth. The interior quality of all manufacturers has gotten better over the last decade or so. When I look at a Mercedes interior of the 80s and one from now I cannot help but think the cabin from the 80s is the "cheap" one, not the modern one.
It's the same with Lexus. The original LS400 interior seems incredibly cheap to me compared to the current LS.
As precision engineering improves, interiors can only become better.
Also, in the old days the concept of light-weight-materials for use in automobiles wasn't as widespread as it is today. This has the effect that modern vehicles feel lighter than older ones - and that is not a sign of poor build quality at all. It's simply an evolution in the process of building cars. The story is no different with Mercedes. My family used to own a 1980s 300SD Turbodiesel which had the traditional bank vault feel of many older cars. The '08 E230 which is my current ride feels lighter, but in no way does it feel cheaper or cheaply made.
I find it interesting that you say their new cars are "cheaply made". I take it you have plenty of experience with them then. Have you ever visited the Mercedes factory in Sindelfingen? I have. I live in Stuttgart and this city is dominated by Mercedes and Porsche. I've made it a point to visit their museums and their factories (still have to book the Porsche factory tour, though). I'm no expert on automotive construction, but what I saw in Sindelfingen was a high-tech factory with the latest robotics and probably construction techniques, too. Cheaply made? That's funny.
I am fortunate enough to have experienced the new W204 C class and a last generation E230 and these have been great cars. I've had zero issues with them over my ownership years. And by the way, the interiors on both these cars are great. I know people here feel the C class cabin is cheap, but when you own the car, drive it daily and experience it the true quality of the cabin will come across. I have never felt the interior of my ex-C200 CDI was in any way cheap. Bland and conservative? Maybe. Cheap? No. In fact, the Audi A4 interior is no different: it just has a couple of extra chrome strips here and there. By the way, there are several A4 owners on other forums who've complained about the decrease in interior quality of their A4. One person owns both the new A4 and current C class - and guess which interior they find better? The C class. I'll try finding the thread on that particular forum for you. He describes his reasons quite thoroughly and offers a picture comparison, too.
I suppose at the end of the day it's all a subjective opinion. I personally feel that all interiors in the premium segment are good. There really is no interior that is better than another.
It's the same with Lexus. The original LS400 interior seems incredibly cheap to me compared to the current LS.
As precision engineering improves, interiors can only become better.
12-31-09, 02:40 PM
#199
Lexus Fanatic
I have to sound like a Mercedes fanboy here for a second.
How do you compare the "tank-like build quality" of an older Benz to a more modern one? I mean the true build quality of any vehicle is something that becomes apparent after long-term ownership - not a quick let's-check-out-the-car-at-the-dealer story. It seems that you just glance at a Mercedes cabin and come to a conclusion. I'm sorry, but that's the absolute worst way of judging a car.
Also, in the old days the concept of light-weight-materials for use in automobiles wasn't as widespread as it is today. This has the effect that modern vehicles feel lighter than older ones - and that is not a sign of poor build quality at all. It's simply an evolution in the process of building cars. The story is no different with Mercedes. My family used to own a 1980s 300SD Turbodiesel which had the traditional bank vault feel of many older cars. The '08 E230 which is my current ride feels lighter, but in no way does it feel cheaper or cheaply made.
I find it interesting that you say their new cars are "cheaply made". I take it you have plenty of experience with them then. Have you ever visited the Mercedes factory in Sindelfingen? I have. I live in Stuttgart and this city is dominated by Mercedes and Porsche. I've made it a point to visit their museums and their factories (still have to book the Porsche factory tour, though). I'm no expert on automotive construction, but what I saw in Sindelfingen was a high-tech factory with the latest robotics and probably construction techniques, too. Cheaply made? That's funny.
When you buy a Mercedes you're firstly interested owning the brand name and badge. That's part of the appeal of owning such a car. Hence the high price tag. Value has never been a Mercedes strength and it will probably never be.
How do you compare the "tank-like build quality" of an older Benz to a more modern one? I mean the true build quality of any vehicle is something that becomes apparent after long-term ownership - not a quick let's-check-out-the-car-at-the-dealer story. It seems that you just glance at a Mercedes cabin and come to a conclusion. I'm sorry, but that's the absolute worst way of judging a car.
Also, in the old days the concept of light-weight-materials for use in automobiles wasn't as widespread as it is today. This has the effect that modern vehicles feel lighter than older ones - and that is not a sign of poor build quality at all. It's simply an evolution in the process of building cars. The story is no different with Mercedes. My family used to own a 1980s 300SD Turbodiesel which had the traditional bank vault feel of many older cars. The '08 E230 which is my current ride feels lighter, but in no way does it feel cheaper or cheaply made.
I find it interesting that you say their new cars are "cheaply made". I take it you have plenty of experience with them then. Have you ever visited the Mercedes factory in Sindelfingen? I have. I live in Stuttgart and this city is dominated by Mercedes and Porsche. I've made it a point to visit their museums and their factories (still have to book the Porsche factory tour, though). I'm no expert on automotive construction, but what I saw in Sindelfingen was a high-tech factory with the latest robotics and probably construction techniques, too. Cheaply made? That's funny.
When you buy a Mercedes you're firstly interested owning the brand name and badge. That's part of the appeal of owning such a car. Hence the high price tag. Value has never been a Mercedes strength and it will probably never be.
I have to go with UDel on this one. He is correct that, in general, the materials used on M-B- products 20 years ago were far more solid than those of today...the Gelandewagen, of course, is probably the most classic example, but it is also pretty much true across the board. Shut the door on a 1990 Mercedes, for example, and you get the solid "thunk" of a tank". Compare that with their doors today.
Of course, it is true, as you point out, that modern engineering can sometimes make lighter-weight materials stronger than heavier-weight ones, but, too often, that is not the case. The G Man, below, points out what happened when M-B tried to cut costs with one of their most notoriously unreliable vehivles:
I agree, the 1st gen ML were horrible. A few of my friend had the displeasure of owning one. One of my friend's wife had a early model and her driver door keep retaining water for some reason. The dealer would drain the water, but the problem keep coming back until the dealer drill another drain hole on the door Another friend at work had release levers come off in his hands when trying to activate them and interior panels falling off.
Those were dark times for MB, the 1st gen C class, ML series, basically quality problems across the board. Quality in recent MB have improve but still not as good as the good old days.
Another friend at work had release levers come off in his hands when trying to activate them and interior panels falling off.Those were dark times for MB, the 1st gen C class, ML series, basically quality problems across the board. Quality in recent MB have improve but still not as good as the good old days.
Originally Posted by DustinV
I think this is a twisted myth. The interior quality of all manufacturers has gotten better over the last decade or so.
12-31-09, 03:46 PM
#200
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I have to go with UDel on this one. He is correct that, in general, the materials used on M-B- products 20 years ago were far more solid than those of today...the Gelandewagen, of course, is probably the most classic example, but it is also pretty much true across the board.
When I see an E class from the early 1990s (the W124 I think it was called) and compare the interior to that of the new W212 model, the W124 cabin appears outclassed and cheap in comparison to the newer model. That doesn't mean that the interior of the W124 is cheap, because it wasn't: it is simply outclassed by the latest generation of E class. What makes the new E class interior appear better-built and more upscale than its sibling from the early 1990s? For one, the materials look "cleaner" (smoother), the panel gaps are smaller and the whole precision engineering feel is more apparent in the newer model.
I feel this is true not only for Mercedes but many other brands, Lexus included.
Here we have a W124 interior and the cabin from the new E class. I don't want to discuss in-depth material quality of older and newer Mercedes', because, let's be honest here: we have no idea about these things. Only a chemist can tell you which material is "better" in the sense of durability and so forth.
The doors on my E230 close with a solid thunk sound. It's not the heavy metallic clang we're used to from the heavier Benzes of older days, but it is a pleasing sound which lets me feel that the vehicle I am driving is a quality machine. And having owned this car for almost two years I can attest to the great qualities it possesses. Hence I cannot understand how Udel can label these vehicles as being "cheaply made". They are clearly not cheaply made in my experience.
Of course, it is true, as you point out, that modern engineering can sometimes make lighter-weight materials stronger than heavier-weight ones, but, too often, that is not the case. The G Man, below, points out what happened when M-B tried to cut costs with one of their most notoriously unreliable vehivles:
On the other hand, Mercedes, to my knowledge, has factories in South Africa where RHD C classes are made for JAPAN, the UK and other RHD nations. I've mentioned this before but during a recent UK survey about owner satisfaction the W204 C class was rated very highly. Reliable and pleasing to own.
They also have factories in South America where they have been producing trucks and buses since the 1950s or 1960s. These plants have a very good reputation for producing high quality products. In essence, producing outside of Germany and delivering the quality you normally expect from a Mercedes is possible.
I think the company learned their lesson from the first ML. The current ML seems like a decent vehicle with much-improved quality compared to its predecessor. Mercedes is also preparing to produce the C class in North America for the US market as well as offering 4-cylinder diesels and gasoline motors.
Source: http://wardsauto.com/ar/mercedes_confirms_4_cyl_091223/
Some have, some haven't. A number of Toyota interiors, toady, for example, I find unimpressive in material quality. GM interiors, on the other hand, still show some cheap plastic parts, but, in general, are much better than just a few years ago.....the greatest improvement is (arguably) on the Cadillac CTS.
12-31-09, 07:47 PM
#204
Lexus Fanatic
12-31-09, 09:04 PM
#205
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I am close to closing this b/c this is how the thread started and now its "trying to prove" to us? 
Why? No one here has bashed or beat up the MDX outside of styling. Many here have recommended it. Hell I did.
So lets review;
So you asked us what we think. Do not get upset or try to prove something when you asked for peoples 2 cents.
Going to Acura paint, look Acura is not known to be on the forefront of anything outside of NAV. Their paint is not known for being class leading or the best. I think the MDX paint and RL paint is fine, haven't read or heard problems. The less models do have paint issues.
Why? No one here has bashed or beat up the MDX outside of styling. Many here have recommended it. Hell I did. So lets review;
So you asked us what we think. Do not get upset or try to prove something when you asked for peoples 2 cents.
Going to Acura paint, look Acura is not known to be on the forefront of anything outside of NAV. Their paint is not known for being class leading or the best. I think the MDX paint and RL paint is fine, haven't read or heard problems. The less models do have paint issues.
Nobody is getting upset or trying to "prove" anything. If we discuss a certain topic its more than normal to discuss both sides and to provide info, pics, personal experience,etc to back that up. A member already posted close up shots of Mercedes paint so why cant I show pics of Acura paint???
Give a brother a break Mike.....Damn !!
I think interpritation of tone on the internet and in these forums is wrong some times. I think its funny that many of the comments on this thread are from members who dont own a late model Acura and we listen to their comments, but when the guy who actually owns one tries to add some photos to make a point all of a sudden I am "proving" something. Its an open forum discussion and info, comments, facts, experiences will always go back and forth .
Happy new year brother. I wish you and your family nothing but health and happiness for 2010.
Last edited by I8ABMR; 12-31-09 at 10:01 PM.
12-31-09, 09:20 PM
#206
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
hey guys here are some videos and articles that will help get us back on topic
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/v...01/1323277174/ ACURA MDX
MDX vs RX350: http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...04/050414.html
New Toyota Highlander video from consumer reports
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/v...01/1427306160/
ML350 video http://autos.yahoo.com/2009_mercedes..._ml350-videos/
Porsche Cayanne video( they do make a stripped V6 verision in the 40-50k range) http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/v...01/1875308194/
Audi Q5: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/v...1/30288303001/
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/v...01/1323277174/ ACURA MDX
MDX vs RX350: http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...04/050414.html
New Toyota Highlander video from consumer reports
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/v...01/1427306160/
ML350 video http://autos.yahoo.com/2009_mercedes..._ml350-videos/
Porsche Cayanne video( they do make a stripped V6 verision in the 40-50k range) http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/v...01/1875308194/
Audi Q5: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/v...1/30288303001/
Last edited by I8ABMR; 12-31-09 at 10:15 PM.
01-01-10, 12:10 AM
#207
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How is this off topic. This thread is titled best 7 passenger luxury SUV......Toyota interiors or Mercedes interiors is fine to discuss.
01-01-10, 10:15 AM
#209
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I will vouch for the ML350. We have an 09 Black on Black, and find it very sporty, stylish, and solidly built. You should be able to get one for under 43K, especially if you go for the base, which is very well equipped. MB also has great financing offers. We received 1.9% for 60 mo.
01-01-10, 12:07 PM
#210
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I will vouch for the ML350. We have an 09 Black on Black, and find it very sporty, stylish, and solidly built. You should be able to get one for under 43K, especially if you go for the base, which is very well equipped. MB also has great financing offers. We received 1.9% for 60 mo.