Toyota to cut auto parts costs by 30%, reports say
12-23-09, 08:35 AM
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Unlike other car makers, Toyota actually WORKS with suppliers to find solutions to issues, including trying to build cheaper parts. This is not GM etc here, putting a gun to a suppliers head to just make things cheaper. Toyota uses its vast engineering might to send engineers to suppliers to help make things cheaper.
I am cautious and wary like everyone in here but it simply is a part of their kaizen cycle.
I am cautious and wary like everyone in here but it simply is a part of their kaizen cycle.
12-23-09, 08:39 AM
#17
Lexus Champion
I'd rather see them reduce cost via reducing complexity and variation than reduce cost via reducing material and build cost.
There's no question in my mind that this will impact quality and reliability. It's just a question of 'how much'. You know the savings aren't going to be passed on to us... they're going to be pocketed by Toyota who's trying to make huge profits like they were before, but this time in a depressed economy.
I think this is a bad reaction that may impact their reputation. It's no surprise they're not making money in a depressed economy. If I were them I'd just accept that and wait for a recovery whilst holding on to my reputation.
Keep in mind there have already been a lot of complaints about Toyota and Lexus quality declining in some of their models. So you already know the direction they're heading, and you know they're seeking to take it further.
There's no question in my mind that this will impact quality and reliability. It's just a question of 'how much'. You know the savings aren't going to be passed on to us... they're going to be pocketed by Toyota who's trying to make huge profits like they were before, but this time in a depressed economy.
I think this is a bad reaction that may impact their reputation. It's no surprise they're not making money in a depressed economy. If I were them I'd just accept that and wait for a recovery whilst holding on to my reputation.
Keep in mind there have already been a lot of complaints about Toyota and Lexus quality declining in some of their models. So you already know the direction they're heading, and you know they're seeking to take it further.
12-23-09, 08:46 AM
#18
Lexus Fanatic
Not so much relaibility but material quality. The newer Toyotas' materials are already getting cheaper and cheaper, Toyota should really try to find a way to improve material quality instead of trying to cut cost by reducing material quality. I guess Toyota has its heart set on following GM's foot step, first becoming the world biggest auto manfacturing, secondly, start produce cheap interiors like GM 
12-23-09, 08:51 AM
#19
Lexus Fanatic
The Camry, for example, is not a bad car by any means (actually, a quite good one), but the dash plastics and *****, IMO, border on junk.
One thing that might (?) help you personally is if Toyota can drop the price on any sensors or fuel pumps your hard-starting 4Runnner may need.....if the repairs are not factory-covered or on the house.
12-23-09, 08:53 AM
#20
Lexus Champion
That was quite evident in the newer Camrys, Tundra, and the 2006 Lexus ES350. The new 2010 ES350, though, has rectified a number of those former material problems.
The Camry, for example, is not a bad car by any means (actually, a quite good one), but the dash plastics and *****, IMO, border on junk.
The Camry, for example, is not a bad car by any means (actually, a quite good one), but the dash plastics and *****, IMO, border on junk.
What materials did they change on the 2010 ES? It's pretty unusual for a manufacturer to actually change what a part is made out of in the middle of a generation.
12-23-09, 09:18 AM
#21
Lexus Fanatic
The car itself, of course, has not been redesigned (more of a minor refreshening), but the dash and trim (a major shortcoming of earlier models) has been redone and given more and better-quality trim. So has some of the door-panel trim. Check one out and you'll see for yourself.....IMO, it makes the interior noticeably more pleasant.....almost as nice as that of the superb last-generation ES330.
Last edited by mmarshall; 12-23-09 at 09:21 AM.
12-23-09, 09:42 AM
#22
Lexus Champion
The car itself, of course, has not been redesigned (more of a minor refreshening), but the dash and trim (a major shortcoming of earlier models) has been redone and given more and better-quality trim. So has some of the door-panel trim. Check one out and you'll see for yourself.....IMO, it makes the interior noticeably more pleasant.....almost as nice as that of the superb last-generation ES330.
Are you talking about cosmetic improvements or structural improvements? In other words did they make the materials more padded, solid, flex-resistant, etc or are you just saying the wood trim is more convincing?
Improved wood trim doesn't surprise me... that's a fairly easy mid cycle refresh change, but it's also not nearly enough for me to change my overall opinion of a car from sub-par interior to impressive interior quality such as you seem to have done for the 06 to 10 ES350. Then again I don't tend to put much focus onto wood trim since I don't care for it whether or not it's fake.
12-23-09, 09:53 AM
#23
Lexus Fanatic
Improved wood trim doesn't surprise me... that's a fairly easy mid cycle refresh change, but it's also not nearly enough for me to change my overall opinion of a car from sub-par interior to impressive interior quality such as you seem to have done for the 06 to 10 ES350. Then again I don't tend to put much focus onto wood trim since I don't care for it whether or not it's fake.
Here's an excellent example, IMO, of superb non-wood trim....the console on the Lexus IS-F.
12-23-09, 10:17 AM
#24
Lexus Test Driver
As far as engineering a lower cost part, that is hit ior miss. A good example is Lexus using plastic gears in their mirror, is it really worth the $3 or $4 Lexus save by going to plastic gears?
12-23-09, 10:45 AM
#25
Are you talking about cosmetic improvements or structural improvements? In other words did they make the materials more padded, solid, flex-resistant, etc or are you just saying the wood trim is more convincing?
Improved wood trim doesn't surprise me... that's a fairly easy mid cycle refresh change, but it's also not nearly enough for me to change my overall opinion of a car from sub-par interior to impressive interior quality such as you seem to have done for the 06 to 10 ES350. Then again I don't tend to put much focus onto wood trim since I don't care for it whether or not it's fake.
Improved wood trim doesn't surprise me... that's a fairly easy mid cycle refresh change, but it's also not nearly enough for me to change my overall opinion of a car from sub-par interior to impressive interior quality such as you seem to have done for the 06 to 10 ES350. Then again I don't tend to put much focus onto wood trim since I don't care for it whether or not it's fake.
but again, this is not about interior materials... they mentioned 2-3 years ago how they will focus on lowering number of parts in car through smart engineering... for instance, example then was how average vehicle has 23 different computers for various things, and how their goal was to reduce that to 2-3 per vehicle and saving a lot of money with that, while improving customer experience and features.
12-23-09, 10:57 AM
#26
Lexus Test Driver
they mentioned 2-3 years ago how they will focus on lowering number of parts in car through smart engineering... for instance, example then was how average vehicle has 23 different computers for various things, and how their goal was to reduce that to 2-3 per vehicle and saving a lot of money with that, while improving customer experience and features.
Does anybody have interior pictures of the 2010 ES vs 2009? Usually Lexus only make minor changes in the interior in the mid-cycle refresh.
12-23-09, 11:10 AM
#27
Also the center console is larger with more storage and I believe the steering wheels controls were changed.
12-23-09, 11:26 AM
#28
Isnt that the mistake BMW had when they put the i-drive computer together with the transmission computer, when the i-drive computer crashed, you are shiz out of luck. Since then, BMW had fix the problem.
Does anybody have interior pictures of the 2010 ES vs 2009? Usually Lexus only make minor changes in the interior in the mid-cycle refresh.
Does anybody have interior pictures of the 2010 ES vs 2009? Usually Lexus only make minor changes in the interior in the mid-cycle refresh.
In fact, all of japanese manufacturers formed joint engineering venture that is doing this interface, and it will be used on all cars, not just Toyotas.
Materials and fit and finish on ES are the same, they added some chrome surrounds and few minor pieces, just like any other toyota/lexus interior refresh.
but again, thinking about how this relates to perception of quality of interior materials (this is what look at feel is called), is wrong... Germans always had better perception of quality when it comes to interior, and look how they fare in surveys, even in Germany, let alone USA. Thats why when you push and poke around interior, that is called perception of quality.
Toyotas of early had very bad perception of quality, hard interiors in ugly gray colors. They actually improved this in every new Toyota model (I am thinking of European Yaris, Corolla, Verso, Avensis, Rav4, LC120/150 that i am used to seeing in the shop and driving around... it could be only worse in USA as they use cheaper materials there). For instance 99-2006 Yaris was rattle trap with light gray interior and everyone who bought it, bought it despite the interior and not because of it. Yet in quality surveys, that Yaris is top of the crop.
12-23-09, 11:37 AM
#29
Lexus Test Driver
it is a mistake if it is problematic, on the other hand, sharing these ECUs means that there will be less problematic parts for individual units.
In fact, all of japanese manufacturers formed joint engineering venture that is doing this interface, and it will be used on all cars, not just Toyotas.
In fact, all of japanese manufacturers formed joint engineering venture that is doing this interface, and it will be used on all cars, not just Toyotas.
Sharing CPUs on a car is a way for the maufacturers to reduce cost, not increase reliability.
Last edited by The G Man; 12-23-09 at 11:47 AM.
12-23-09, 11:46 AM
#30
Let’s take a machine or a computer system that has to be as reliable as possible, a nuclear power plant is a good example. A nuclear power plant is not run by one computer, it is run by a number of redundant industrial computers network connected to a server which has a back up. If one computer goes down, the plant is still capable of running.