spwolf

Every company we talk about here builds cars... every one of them want cheaper parts. Also, every one of them work with suppliers to lower down the prices and make cheaper, better parts. Some are less sucessful, some are more. Toyota is one of companies that is more sucessful.

IS-SV

Agreed, based on history over last couple of decades.

spwolf

What you do not understand is that the fact that vehicles share platform does not mean they are same vehicles or that they even share the same suspension.

Prado is GX... would north american customers pay 5k-10k more for their 4Runners? In fact, Toyoda's new strategy is to build even more vehicles for specific markets because that is the only way you can sell more vehicles.

As to the platforms, all Toyota trucks Hilux, Tacoma, FJ, 4Runner, Prado, all use some variation of Land Cruiser platform, but all of them drive very differently and are very different vehicles...

(Cj)

I never said that any of the vehicles that I named were the same vehicle.

If the Prado was sold in the US as the 4runner it wouldn't have to be $5-10K more than the current 4runner. Honda is able to sell the CR-V and Civic (both of which are sold in European markets) at competitive prices in the US. Ford brought the pricy classy Fiesta over to the US and their selling it at a highly competitive price. What does the Civic, CR-V, and Fiesta have in common? They are manufactured in the local markets that their sold in. This is how Toyota could save a lot of money while maintaining competitive prices in local markets.

I know of Toyota's new strategy to manufacture more market specific products, but I don't believe this is the best way to go about saving money. Toyota should instead develop global vehicles to replace the 4 or 5 models per segment that they have in different global markets. Once again using the FJ, 4runner, Prado example, Toyota could have one vehicle developed and designed by one team, instead of having 3 different development and design teams. If this was done across the lineup, Toyota could develop one compact sedan/wagon/hatchback, one semi compact sedan/wagon/crossover, one midsized sedan/wagon/crossover, one fullsized sedan/crossover, instead of having all of the different vehicles they currently all over the world filling all those slots.

(Cj)

Another thing that doesn't make sense to me is all of the JDM specific models Toyota sells when the Japanese Domestic car Market is shrinking. In order to amortize the costs of those models some of them should be sold globally, and manufactured in local markets. The Crown could replace the Avalon, meaning that their would only be one global full-size flagship equalling less development cost, and the amortization of the money spent to develop the Crown which is sold in a small market now. In order to keep costs in check the Crown could be manufactured in local markets, possibly alongside the IS and the FT-86, and in the US the ES could also be manufactured at such a plant.

spwolf

How would they lower the cost of building GX to 4Runner prices?

Honda's strategy is actually very bad example, European Civic hatch is not sold in USA at all, and European CR-V is selling nowhere close to European Rav4, which is different than US one, which kind of proves my point ;-).

Same goes for Fiesta, which is very pricey in USA and i very much doubt it will sell even the modest goals they have... Fiesta is sold at Corolla prices.

If Toyota sold same models in Europe and USA, their overall sales would suffer greatly - Europeans would not buy cheap US models, and Americans would not purchase expensive European models.

This is why cars have to be designed for every market specifically. Otherwise they wont sell. And if they dont sell, it is hard to see cost savings.

spwolf

i dont think you understand how international markets work.... Toyota holds 44% of Japanese markets, because they sell so many vehicles. If they did not offer choice, they would not be so successful. Those vehicles are designed for Japanese markets, their appeal to world markets is not that big.

Toyota has core Worldwide models that sell worldwide, but even they are customized heavily to the local markets. Corolla, Rav4, two models that sell worldwide, are very different in USA and Europe.

as to the Crown, Crown is VERY expensive vehicle, smaller and yet a lot more expensive than Avalon.... Crown is also very sucessful in Japan, and entire Crown series sell more than entire Lexus lineup in Japan (and MB and BMW).

There is an reason that Toyoda called for more local/specific vehicles for different markets, this is only way you can become major player in those markets.

(Cj)

You missed my point. If the Prado was manufactured in the US it could be sold for the same price as the 4runner. What makes the Prado so expensive in the US is the fact that it's manufactured in Japan and exchange rates aren't favorable for the US right now.

The Honda Civic is sold there but in hybrid form only. I'm sure it's more profitable for Honda to have one Civic and CR-V that they sell in both the US and Europe. Mind you, Euro CR-Vs and Civic are manufactured in the UK and American Civics and CR-Vs are manufactured here in North America. This is precisely what I'm saying that Toyota could do to save money. Design one vehicle that can be sold in multiple markets, and manufacture said vehicle in it's respective local market.

The Fiesta, is NOT the price of the Corolla here in the US. The Fiesta is the exact same price as the Yaris, yet it offers more high end Euro options. How was Ford able to make the classy European Fiesta the same price as the Yaris? Because they are manufacturing it in here in the US.

Now let's imagine that Toyota had one compact sedan that they sold in the US and in Europe. In the US Toyota can make it in a local factory and offer lower class options because that's what the US expects. In Europe Toyota can make the same car in a local factory to a higher standard and offer more options that Europeans expect. Even at that point less money would be spent on product development because it's only one sedan being developed versus 2 or 3.

spwolf

But reason Prado is expensive is not just because it is produced in Japan, it is because it is much more expensive vehicle in general, compared to 4Runner. What you are saying right now is that GX would be same price as 4Runner, if GX was built in USA...?

As to producing same car for the world, different countries have different preferences. This is why manufacturers create different vehicles for different markets. It is not that they want to spend money, it is because customers in Europe will not buy same cars as customers in USA. This is why VW is doing so poorly in USA. They offer Passat in USA, that is best selling European vehicle in Europe, and yet in the USA it sold 536 Passats last month... on the other hand, Camry is designed for American market and it is best seller.

You can still produce cars locally, whatever the design of them is... but you need to build economies of scale - cars that are not sold in large quantities can not be built locally.

pagemaster

Actually the 4runner is more of a Prado than the GX. The 4runner and Prado share identical frames, 4.0 v6 engines, 5 speed, KDSS, steering rack....the GX look more like a Prado and shares the same frame ext but does not share the both the KDSS/AVS (GX only), 6 speed or 4.6 V8

-J-P-L-

Isn't the fiesta going to be built in Mexico? Hence the generous offering.

pagemaster

Both 4runner and GX would be $5k-$8k cheaper if they were built in the United States. You are right about the GX being more expensive than the 4runner and that is because there is much more content offered in the GX...both were designed alongside the Prado.

The G Man

I think one of the poster said it best, it can be done, but the true test is how the part will survive after the warranty period. A car manufacturer can make a door hinge out of a piece of cast alloy or they can use a piece of stamped metal, both will pass the initial QC test but the cast piece will last years longer. A supplier can make a trim piece out of solid plastic, or it can be hallow and still meet spec. Things like this is what concern me about across the broad part cost cutting.