Just out of curiosity, what is the market share of Japanese cars in Germany?

 

Not surprised about the Kia and the Chinese cars. These are plain junk.

Very surprised about the Caddy CTS and BLS - these two seem to be very "European" by design. Maybe there are other reasons they aren't selling, such as high import tax and poor dealer network?

As far as the Escalade, LS and the Nissan, truck, these are just way too un-European. I wonder how their sales numbers compare to similar cars in their class, for instance LS460 vs 8 cylinder S class, Escalade vs 8 cylinder GL class, and the Nissan vs a traditional European pickup (if there's such a thing) with 8 cylinder engine.

 

LS has no diesels, no V-6 and its a low selling production car anyway. Of course it will sell poor in Germany, not surprising at all. Then the 600h L costs a grip. Then Germans simply are some of the most badge/image concerned people around. I simply don't expect Lexus to many any serious inroads there.

Lexus cannot attack Germany like everywhere else.

 

Its the same reason why you dont see too many French drinking Calif. wine

 

None of the choices are too surprising, the Germans have excellent taste. (I'm neutral toward the CTS, I'm personally not a fan, but can see why people love it)

 

I don't have any figures, nor could I locate any reliable sources. I do remember some data from a few months ago that displayed the clear lead Toyota had over its fellow Japanese rivals in the German market.

 

What? That's not why most of these vehicles are not selling there. Is there some sort of "taste" metric you know of and we don't???

 

Depends on how you define "junk". I can't speak for Chinese cars, as I have not seen or reviewed them, but Kias (and their Hyundai cousins) are certainly not poorly-built like years ago.

Yes, European countries are known for a higher level of protection of their auto industries (with protective tariffs) than here in America, but with the CTS, (I can't comment on the BLS), I think it's probably a psychological thing with Germans. They don't want to admit that an Amrrican-nameplate vehicle can equal one of theirs in road manners (the CTS-V was engineered on the Nurburgring)......so they boycott it.

 

We're getting into stereotypes a little heavy here. I discourage stereotypes......and try to avoid them myself, but, to be honest, I make one myself every now and then.

Yes, in America, the Escalade and Navigator are popular with pimps, drug-pushers, Rap-singers, and professional athletes (Tiger Woods, himself, wrecked an Escalade just a few weeks ago), but they are also quite popular with suburban families who just happen to have a lot of extra cash sitting around.

 

It does not surprise me that they dont like the LS in Germany.

 

The CTS has not been well-marketed over here. Most Germans don't know anything about it or how good it might be. I suppose in many automotive conversations between two Germans (Europeans) about cars in this class you'll hear the 3er, A4 and C class being mentioned often, maybe the Lexus IS, too, if you're lucky. But the CTS? Probably not.

Also, the sporting qualities of the CTS are completely unknown to the majority of European luxury consumers. If you want a sporty car in this class the 3er and A4 are the standard choices for most people. In fact the 3er defines the sporting qualities of this segment and that perception cannot be changed overnight by the CTS or any other challenger.

And their products, with the exception of the CTS, are completely inferior to their European or Japanese rivals. We all know the BLS is a joke and the Escalade really has no place in Europe - and their dismal sales prove this. Having these two cars in your lineup can do a lot for perception. The European perception of Cadillac, to my knowledge, is that they still build gas-guzzling cars. With the exception of the BLS, there is no alternative diesel engine offered for any Cadillac product in Europe, too.

Lastly, the Cadillac brand is not a "big player" in Europe. They are not even a "small player". They're just there but their sales are dismal. In fact you've seen the entire European Cadillac lineup in this one post: minus the SRX (XLR). Their "German market sales" are really not worth talking about. People are not familiar with the brand. Nobody knows what to expect when you buy a Cadillac in Europe. Brands like Audi, BMW or Mercedes are familiar and have a reputation: Cadillac is "unfamiliar" in that sense and nobody really knows what their reputation is (aside from offering gas-guzzlers like the Escalade, SRX and the completely uncompetitive, yet efficient, BLS). So - buying a Cadillac in Europe can be viewed as a bold move: a move not many people are willing to make.


I personally believe that Cadillac will never make any serious inroads into the European market. Even Lexus is better positioned if you ask me. GM should pull Cadillac out of the European market and focus on the North American market instead where the brand is a major player.

 

For your information, I didn't write this. I read other forums, too, and found this on Finalgear and thought it would generate an interesting discussion on Club Lexus.

 

Actually, it probably has more to do with the fact that Lexus only offers two engine variants for the LS. A thirsty V8 and a thirsty V8 hybrid. "Thirsty" compared the efficient smaller diesels and V6 offered by all their German rivals.

My boss drives the new BMW 730d. Two days ago we got into a discussion about BMW's since I'm expecting a 118d soon. He told me that when he drives the car in a relaxed and normal manor, it will return 5.4 l per 100 km which translates into about 43 mpg. On average, he attains 6.2 l per 100 km which is around 38 mpg. Now these are impressive numbers for a large and heavy car like the 7 series. I've begun subscribing to (Auto Motor und Sport, a German car magazine based in Stuttgart) and they had an interesting comparison from last month: Mercedes S350 vs S350 CDI vs S400 Hybrid. The S350 CDI was more fuel efficient than the S400 Hybrid in all environments including in the city. I have the issue lying around my house somewhere. If you're interested I can scan it and post it here for you to see. So diesels are a must here. Lexus has none (except the IS220d).

I'd say from a value perspective the LS can be very appealing - but those expensive fuel bills put many people off. And then you have those people who'd rather have a V8 7 series, S class (etc.) instead of an LS...

 

I agree with this. The Caddy image there is sadly synonymous with gangsters/rappers/bling b/c of the Escalade. The CTS also confuses being a "tweener" there. To be honest its not best in class here so THERE it surely will not fare well. With recent GM troubles, this only hurts Caddy. Not to mention the BLS disaster.

 

The German automotive press has reviewed the CTS and given it very high marks like most North American reviews. It's obviously an excellent vehicle, no doubt about that.

One great car, however, is not enough to work wonders. In Europe at the moment Cadillac sells the BLS, SRX, CTS and Escalade. Of these the CTS has the most potential, but it is let down by the brand (Cadillac in Europe), lack of different trims, diesel and smaller gasoline engines and the fact that its rivals have far more appeal.

Again, I think it would be best if Cadillac dropped out of Europe and focused on the North American market instead. There is far more potential and profit for a brand like Cadillac in its home market than in Europe in my opinion.