SLegacy99

Sure there are buyers out there like that. But a lot of diesel buyers do so with the intent of keeping the car a long time.

spwolf

hopefully you would not buy an diesel because of its luxurious properties compared to V6 petrol (it has none) :-).

regardless of that, for diesel to gain real acceptance, it needs to save people money.

<VENOM>

I have a few friends and relatives who have bought diesel E-Classes in the past, all with the intent on keeping them for a million miles, I don't know how this new added cost will play into things, but everything is getting more expensive even the cheap cars, people who want to keep the car for 3 years are not concerned with diesels, they will opt for the dealership lease deal on the most popularly configured model

I8ABMR

http://jalopnik.com/5441978/294-bill...f-us-consumers

The hidden cost in owning a clean diesel Mercedes? Filling it up with AdBlue urea solution at an outrageous price of $32.20-per-gallon. Consumer Reports felt the pain after receiving this $294 bill for a top-off in their diesel Mercedes GL350.


A copy of the bill shows the vehicle's AdBlue tank was given an additional 7.5 gallons of the fluid at a price of $241.50 (or about $32.20 per gallon) with an installation charge of $52.48 for the full $293.98 price. Considering the mileage on the vehicle was about 16,565 miles it's a decent amount of money to spend approximately once a year on top of other expenses. Why do Mercedes diesel owners have to do this?

Diesel vehicles typically get higher mileage than their gas-powered counterparts, but the increased emission of nitrogen oxide (NOx) from diesel engines makes them an environmental threat. In order to limit the NOx levels coming out of the tailpipe, the Mercedes BlueTec system injects a urea solution into the exhaust, which turns most of the NOx into water and nitrogen. The urea used is not actual urine from an animal, but a synthetic solution mixed with water called AdBlue.

It's no secret dealers often charge more for the same service, but the amount of money being charged for AdBlue at Mercedes service centers (not just this one) breaks down to about $32.20 per gallon as mentioned compared to approximately $6.75 per gallon for the Audi/VW variety at WorldImpex.com, which a poster at the BenzWorld forum claims will work for his ML Mercedes.

Even if you can get the solution itself at a lower cost, installing it yourself is a risky proposition because a mistake could mean damaging a catalytic converter — one of the most expensive parts on a car. And it's not like you can just ignore refilling this as most AdBlue vehicles will slow you down or stop running altogether if you don't.

Overall, this means you're basically stuck going to Mercedes to get your car serviced and, as Consumer Reports' bill shows, paying $20 to get the oil change light reset. BMW, which also uses the system, doesn't charge for AdBlue for the first 50K miles if you have their free maintenance plan.

SLegacy99

Exactly. Frankly, the RX450h is an amazing piece of machinery and that powertrain needs to go into some sedans. Thus, I don't really get the point of the diesel SUVs on the market today unless you really do alot of towing. However, vehicles like the 335d or the past E 320 bluetec offer a nice balance of performance and fuel economy, whereas the GSh offers mostly performance and vehicles like the HS offer only fuel economy. However, if you have to spend a lot to maintain the diesel, there goes the benefit.

I8ABMR

I have to agree and I think thats why we are seeing as many of them as we thought we may have seen from back in 2008 . Hybrid technology will advance and I think it will continue to dominate and expand

SLegacy99

It seems to me that there's alot more room for hybrids to expand. I was discussing with my parents if solar panels would be a good investment given their electric bill, due to heating a big house, hot tub, etc. The answer was no since the plan to move in a few years, they wouldn't reap the benefits. However, if you had two PHEVs it would actually make alot of sense, given the increasing efficiency, declining cost, and depending on your demographic (Electric is expensive in the suburbs of Philly).

The G Man

What the cost of replacing the battery pack in Hybrid compare to a Urea refill?

mmarshall

For the first eight years, probably nothing, unless it is damaged in an accident and insurance takes care of it. That is how long most hybrid-related powertrain components are warrantied.

The G Man

Assuming the battery packs cost $3000, eight year divided into $3000 is $375 a year. Therefore, the average cost is higher than the Urea refill. The extra cost for the diesel fuel would probably make it even, but diesel engines also tends to last longer than gasoline engines.
Both technology cannot justify its extra cost with the savings in gas.

LexFather

We told you this in another thread but here you are bringing it up again. I am not going to REPEAT the same answers.

BATTERY PACKS ARE NOT DYING after the 8 years/100k miles is over. So you can't use your math and try to imply ALL hybrids battery replacement cost and frequency is the same.


Not sure why this thread has to turn into another diesel vs hybrid pissing match.

IS-SV

So we've dwelled on sweeping generalizations about Mercedes and Porsche service costs and assumptions about short life of battery packs on hybrids and who knows what else as this thread drifted off topic for days.

In short the urea refill cost is inflated with an extreme amount of markup/profit, let's see if it comes down in time. But the value of this thread is letting potential buyers know of the unique incremental cost of ownership, even if it's hardly a deal-killer in this expensive class of vehicle.

mmarshall

It's true that urea-solution costs have little or nothing to do with Porsches, but they could be a regular item with M-B Bluetec owners.

I don't see any reason why urea-solution refills, when not covered by free maintenance, have to be done at high-cost M-B or BMW shops. Any reasonably well-trained ASE-trained technician, at any independent shop, should be able to do it....for probably less money. The main issue, of course, is getting the EXACT factory-recommended chemical solution....or an equivalent. Otherwise it may blow the emissions warranty.

The G Man

I would not call it a pissing match, we are just trying to find out the true cost of owning a Hybrids and a Diesels.

And like any other technology, such as Hybrid batteries or Urea solution, the price will come down once the demand picks up.

IS-SV

Who knows, we can guess at this point.

Later I'll ask my independent Mercedes certified master tech to answer the question, since he has never had issues getting any Mercedes parts and solutions from Mercedes. Better than speculation.