mmarshall

Although it's true that today's SUVs are TALL, they are not necessarily that BIG (except maybe for the discontinued Ford Excursion).

If you want to see BIG, take a look at some of the full-size luxury cars I grew up with. These cars were from 225-230" long and had wheelbases approaching 130", with curb weights near or over 5000 lbs.







A little off-topic, maybe, but I wanted to make that point.....a lot of people today have no idea what a truly big car is like. Today's "Big" cars like the Crown Vic and Grand Marquis would be somewhere between a 60's/70s era-compact and mid-size car.

The G Man

We are so far off topic that I think we are in another forum

rominl

iTrader: (4)

right, let's back on topic everyone

mmarshall

Yes, I know...I noted it in the last post.

What do you think of the brake-override issue? You haven't commented much on it.

IS-SV

Since we are now finally returning to topic presented by OP, the question still remains:

Will this Brake Override change be applied to past models via recall?

GS69

The Car Connection

After a recall of 3.8 million vehicles, a quick zip-tie fix and several years of struggling with unintended acceleration claims, Toyota appears to have found a solution--for future vehicles, at least. The company has already begun fitting a brake override system to its cars.

The new brake override system enables the car to return the engine to idle if it senses the driver applying the brakes but unable to slow the car, keeping a racing engine from pushing the car past its limits. Installation on some cars began this month, and Toyota North America president Yoshi Inaba says it'll be standard on all Toyota and Lexus cars by the end of the year.

The first cars to get the upgrade are the Toyota Camry and Lexus ES 350, the models at the center of the latest safety issue.

Finding a satisfactory resolution to the problem will no doubt be a relief to Toyota, as it has struggled with the issue since 2007. After several incidents, at least one of which was fatal, Toyota followed up its 2007 action in mid-2009. An interim solution involving zip-ties was found, followed by a decision to shorten and replace the accelerator pedals themselves, but the newly-announced emergency brake override system provides a solution even in cases where the floor mats or pedals weren't the issue.

It appears Toyota's post-facto remedies referenced above will remain the only solutions for existing cars.

Models that were affected by the safety issue include:

2007-2010 Toyota Camry
2005-2010 Toyota Avalon
2004-2009 Toyota Prius
2005-2010 Toyota Tacoma
2007-2010 Toyota Tundra
2007-2010 Lexus ES 350
2006-2010 Lexus IS 250 and Lexus IS 350

IS-SV

GS69 - Thanks for the post that goes directly to the point with valuable info.

Note: IS-F not included on list.

Next we will see how Toyota/Lexus plans to implement this fix on a model by model basis including timetable.

The G Man

All the hardwares are in place for this fix, its just a software update. I think Toyota is doing the right thing. This will re-gain some consumer confidence. All the nay sayers out there can blame the drivers or call them stupid or whatever, but we all know that any make of car can have a run away throttle situsation, especially cars with drive by wire, and this failsafe should be mandated in all cars. Its a one time software cost and should not add to the price of a new car.

Och

iTrader: (3)

What about neutral?

The G Man

In a runaway situtaion, I bet the computer can cut power to the car faster than most people can react and put the car in neutral.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

I think that all depends on the people. I had near complete loss of braking entering the hairpin at CMP (because the wonderful stability controls kept applying the front brakes when I didn't really want any help and overheated my Carbotech XP12s), but managed to:

1. Slow the car enough to negotiate the turn

2. Advise my instructor the brakes were gone

3. Safely exit the track and get the brakes cool enough to stop again

(Lesson learned - TURN OFF ALL STABILITY CONTROLS BEFORE ENTERING THE TRACK!)

What do I think of all these nannies? For me, they suck. For 98% of the ordinary drivers out there, it's essential because driver's training in this country is as pathetic as it gets for dealing with emergencies, faults, or failures of the control systems in a modern automobile.

Thank goodness the FAA doesn't expect the planes to be inherently safe and actually tests pilots on simulated faults and failures so the people who drive the aircraft the public flies on are fully qualified to deal with these kinds of glitches.

I still think too many people believe the car is the only thing that needs to be safe.

The G Man

In a perfect world yes, all driver should know what to do in an emergency, but as stated above, it is not require knowledge to obtain a driver's license. Every driver should know the basics of how an automobile works as well. Here in the US, most drivers dont even know the traffic laws.

IS-SV

Sadly I agree.

mmarshall

There's a reason for that. In the U.S., to have the general public as car-saavy as us here on CAR CHAT is simply is not politically feasible. The public simply will not elect (or re-elect) politicians who really want to toughen up the standards for license issuance and renewal....they would be voted out of office by a majority of the electorate.

I noticed the vast difference between driver and pilot training....I am a licensed pilot and Ground Instructor (one who can teach flying in the classroom). Flight training, especially in the military, is far more intense than what passes for driver training in many states. In flying, you learn what you are doing, pass all the medical tests, and prove yourself to the instructors and Flight Examiner, or you don't get your license...period. The FAA simply doesn't put up with sloppiness (I also worked for the FAA for over 30 years).

But the flying world can be like this because they are not dealing with hundereds of millions of drivers like the automotive world does.....flying is generally a smaller and more-specialized buisness. Pilots don't have the enormous political clout that drivers do, with groups like AAA, AARP, etc... in sheer numbers. With drivers, if politicians want to stay in office (and most politicians do), they can't risk ticking too many drivers off with harder requirements.

So.....how does this blend in with the thread topic? Simple. Because of the sheer number of drivers who want nannies, we're going to have devices that people don't necessarily NEED, but that they WANT. But, on the other hand, as I outlined in my first post, I myself don't really see any problem with the brake-override if they do choose to install it. I personally, for my own car, couldn't care if they installed it or not.

mmarshall

Interesting, because the IS-F is (arguably) the fastest-accelerating production Lexus model, and, with a runaway engine, would likely be the most dangerous one, and the hardest to stop without the overide system.

The IS-F I reviewed in spring of 2008, IMO, wasn't really that powerful at low RPMs, but, as the tach climbed between 3600 and 4000 with a heavy right foot, took off like a rocket. Mike (1SICKLEX) had a similiar experience with the one he reviewed.