Lexus to Install Brake OverRide Across Lineup (Additional cars added)
01-20-10, 11:48 AM
#61
executive matchup
i'm not looking at this from the point view of caring or not caring about public or my safety (but you are correct, we all should have a view of caring about personal or public safety on the roads and when driving). what i am looking at is from the point of view that IF i want to drag race (I'm not saying I will, I'm saying I might, maybe, potentially, etc, etc), my ability to do so is prevented.
let's put it another way: we all can drive up to 140 mph in our cars. even on highways, this is still a dangerous speed. hit road debris or pothole, say bye bye. but the fact is, even though you can drive up to 140 mph, it doesn't mean you will drive at 140 mph. most of the times, you can't get up to that speed limit. but potentially, you could drive up to that speed limit IF you wanted to (doesn't mean you will, but you can). i use this same reasoning for brake override. you can drag race IF you want to, but it doesn't mean that you will. the brake override negates your ability and choice to do so. 2 cents.
Last edited by Stormforge; 01-20-10 at 11:55 AM.
01-20-10, 12:11 PM
#62
Lexus Test Driver
no i don't drag race in the street, haven't done that in many, many years. but the fact remains the brake override prevents you from doing this IF you choose to do so.
i'm not looking at this from the point view of caring or not caring about public or my safety (but you are correct, we all should have a view of caring about personal or public safety on the roads and when driving). what i am looking at is from the point of view that IF i want to drag race (I'm not saying I will, I'm saying I might, maybe, potentially, etc, etc), my ability to do so is prevented.
let's put it another way: we all can drive up to 140 mph in our cars. even on highways, this is still a dangerous speed. hit road debris or pothole, say bye bye. but the fact is, even though you can drive up to 140 mph, it doesn't mean you will drive at 140 mph. most of the times, you can't get up to that speed limit. but potentially, you could drive up to that speed limit IF you wanted to (doesn't mean you will, but you can). i use this same reasoning for brake override. you can drag race IF you want to, but it doesn't mean that you will. the brake override negates your ability and choice to do so. 2 cents.
i'm not looking at this from the point view of caring or not caring about public or my safety (but you are correct, we all should have a view of caring about personal or public safety on the roads and when driving). what i am looking at is from the point of view that IF i want to drag race (I'm not saying I will, I'm saying I might, maybe, potentially, etc, etc), my ability to do so is prevented.
let's put it another way: we all can drive up to 140 mph in our cars. even on highways, this is still a dangerous speed. hit road debris or pothole, say bye bye. but the fact is, even though you can drive up to 140 mph, it doesn't mean you will drive at 140 mph. most of the times, you can't get up to that speed limit. but potentially, you could drive up to that speed limit IF you wanted to (doesn't mean you will, but you can). i use this same reasoning for brake override. you can drag race IF you want to, but it doesn't mean that you will. the brake override negates your ability and choice to do so. 2 cents.
01-20-10, 12:19 PM
#63
Guest
Posts: n/a
I would think that any safety feature is worth having considering that 0.01% of you needing to launch a car. Lets face it, most people who drives Lexus do not launch their car, what Lexus is doing here is the right move. Like I said earlier, Lexus, like most German cars, should put in a override for owners who want to launch their vehicles in a closed track.
IT HAS NEVER BEEN AN ISSUE FOR ME. I drive normal, I drive hard many times. I have driven my Lexus at the track, I also take them to drag strips. Compared to most Lexus drivers, yes I am flooring it and this forum knows it.
B/C a couple people can't figure out how to drive and b/c some people without a Lexus think they know best, I need to put this "update" in my car???
Uhhhhh no. As I've stated the one time I had an issue with the floor mat IT WAS MY FAULT, I didn't put the clip in right the mat slid. I did not panic. I simply quickly grabbed the mat and pulled over and put it in properly.
I have never experienced ANY Lexus with some "acceleration" problem. I have driven everything short of the LFA. I have driven other Lexus as loaners and on the track. I have TOTALED a Lexus. I've driven them off-road.
So if I have driven dozens of Lexus, if I have owned multiple Lexus, I have driven them in ways most will never do and I have never had an issue why would I want something to stop an issue if I don't have the issue?
I suggest stop assuming how YOU think Lexus owners drive. I can't count how many times I've beaten that supposedly superior "sporty car" to my "pedestrian oh I'm not supposed to drive fast, it's boring, why are you at the track" Lexus.
01-20-10, 12:38 PM
#65
Guest
Posts: n/a
Curious?
Want to know why?
It is b/c I CHANGE THE OIL as recommended. Before I changed my own oil, I got it done.
Amazingly, I didn't have sludge problems in the ES or RX. Amazing isn't it.
Toyota was very very very nice to make whatever reperations for this "sludge" problem when it was obvious PEOPLE WERE NOT CHANGING THEIR OIL.
Probably the same people causing this issue.
Now please be mindful I have NEVER EVER said Toyota/Lexus is perfect, flawless and never makes mistakes, never has issues. NEVER have I said that. I have been VERY vocal about issues, from dealerships to wheel finishes. I also don't EXPECT a perfect car, even from Lexus. I know that is not possible. If people had sludge issues or floor mat issues, fine but if I don't want any changes, I shouldn't have to make them.
Hence the whole" Pursing" part of their tagline!
01-20-10, 12:57 PM
#66
executive matchup
I would think that any safety feature is worth having considering that 0.01% of you needing to launch a car. Lets face it, most people who drives Lexus do not launch their car, what Lexus is doing here is the right move. Like I said earlier, Lexus, like most German cars, should put in a override for owners who want to launch their vehicles in a closed track.
example: seat belts saves lives, which i'm sure you will agree. but there are people out there who refuse to wear seat belts. that is their choice, that is their decision. they live with the consequences of their choice. they get into a serious car accident, they die. end of story. but ultimately it is their choice.
the same can be said of brake override. lexus can add the override, but they shouldn't force it on you. it has to be the driver's decision to want to use the brake override. i believe (or rather hope) that the brake override be optional, and that those who want it can have it.
don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that brake override is a bad idea. it's probably necessary for the average driver who don't know how to reach down and pull the carpet away from the accelerator.
but it shouldn't be mandatory, and if it is, you should have an option to disable it without penalty from the car manufacturer.
01-20-10, 01:14 PM
#67
Lexus Test Driver
example: seat belts saves lives, which i'm sure you will agree. but there are people out there who refuse to wear seat belts. that is their choice, that is their decision. they live with the consequences of their choice. they get into a serious car accident, they die. end of story. but ultimately it is their choice.
the same can be said of brake override. lexus can add the override, but they shouldn't force it on you. it has to be the driver's decision to want to use the brake override. i believe (or rather hope) that the brake override be optional, and that those who want it can have it.
don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that brake override is a bad idea. it's probably necessary for the average driver who don't know how to reach down and pull the carpet away from the accelerator. but it shouldn't be mandatory, and if it is, you should have an option to disable it without penalty from the car manufacturer.
the same can be said of brake override. lexus can add the override, but they shouldn't force it on you. it has to be the driver's decision to want to use the brake override. i believe (or rather hope) that the brake override be optional, and that those who want it can have it.
don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that brake override is a bad idea. it's probably necessary for the average driver who don't know how to reach down and pull the carpet away from the accelerator.
but it shouldn't be mandatory, and if it is, you should have an option to disable it without penalty from the car manufacturer.The problem with letting owners decide what safety feature they want on their car is that it will endanger the public's safety. If one can choose not to have TPMS system on their truck and drive on the highway with 10 psi on their tire, it is certainly a public safety hazzard. I do agree with some that there should be a limit as to how much safety feature is force upon us by the government, all these safety feature usually add cost to new cars, but the brake over ride installed with a bypass is just a matter of some one time progarmming and a bypass button, it should not add that much cost at all and the return is a safer car and in this day of drive by wire and brake by wire and what ever else is control by electronics on a car, I would welcome more layers of safeties instead of less.
01-20-10, 04:12 PM
#68
Driver School Candidate
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this is a moronic debate being had by people who are wholly incoherent to the reality of a dbw brake override installed on virtually every european car. the VW/audi, bmw, mb, jaguar, etc. etc. system ALLOWS brake torquing from a standstill when the brake is pushed FIRST. you see, those german engineers made sure that the system is only activated when the brake is applied if the throttle is being held. holding the brake then pressing the throttle allows throttle.
like i said, moronic debate.
like i said, moronic debate.
01-21-10, 03:16 PM
#69
Toyota recall: 2.3 million cars
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Toyota Motor Sales USA is recalling 2.3 million vehicles to correct a problem that could cause the vehicles' gas pedals to stick.
This new recall is separate from an on-going recall of 4.2 million Toyota and Lexus vehicles to correct a problem in which the pedals could become stuck under a loose floormat.
This new recall is to correct a situation in which the gas pedal could stick without the presence of a floor mat.
"Our investigation indicates that there is a possibility that certain accelerator pedal mechanisms may, in rare instances, mechanically stick in a partially depressed position or return slowly to the idle position," Toyota USA group vice president Irv Miller said in a statement.
The situation is rare, according to Toyota, but can occur when accelerator pedal mechanisms become worn. The problem will usually develop gradually, Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons said. The pedal may become harder to press and may become slower to return when released. In the worst cases, it may become stuck in a partially depressed position.
"Toyota is working quickly to prepare a correction remedy," the automaker said in its announcement.
Owners will be notified when a remedy is available. In the meantime, they can continue driving their cars, Toyota spokesman John Hanson said. The carmaker wants to make drivers aware of the potential problem and of what they should do if it arisies, he said.
Drivers should not pump the brakes as this can deplete the brakes' power assist. In the event the pedal becomes stuck, the vehicle can be brought under control with firm and steady application of the brakes, the automaker said.
The vehicle should then be driven to the nearest safe location, shut off, and a Toyota dealer should be called for assistance.
The vehicles covered under the recall are:
2009-2010 Toyota Rav4, Corolla, Matrix, 2005-2010 Avalon, 2008-2010 Camry, 2010 Highlander, 20078-2010 Tundra and 2008-2010 Sequoia..
The Camry Hybrid is not included in the recall.
Toyota owners with questions should call Toyota's customer service line at 800-331-4331. To top of page
This new recall is separate from an on-going recall of 4.2 million Toyota and Lexus vehicles to correct a problem in which the pedals could become stuck under a loose floormat.
This new recall is to correct a situation in which the gas pedal could stick without the presence of a floor mat.
"Our investigation indicates that there is a possibility that certain accelerator pedal mechanisms may, in rare instances, mechanically stick in a partially depressed position or return slowly to the idle position," Toyota USA group vice president Irv Miller said in a statement.
The situation is rare, according to Toyota, but can occur when accelerator pedal mechanisms become worn. The problem will usually develop gradually, Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons said. The pedal may become harder to press and may become slower to return when released. In the worst cases, it may become stuck in a partially depressed position.
"Toyota is working quickly to prepare a correction remedy," the automaker said in its announcement.
Owners will be notified when a remedy is available. In the meantime, they can continue driving their cars, Toyota spokesman John Hanson said. The carmaker wants to make drivers aware of the potential problem and of what they should do if it arisies, he said.
Drivers should not pump the brakes as this can deplete the brakes' power assist. In the event the pedal becomes stuck, the vehicle can be brought under control with firm and steady application of the brakes, the automaker said.
The vehicle should then be driven to the nearest safe location, shut off, and a Toyota dealer should be called for assistance.
The vehicles covered under the recall are:
2009-2010 Toyota Rav4, Corolla, Matrix, 2005-2010 Avalon, 2008-2010 Camry, 2010 Highlander, 20078-2010 Tundra and 2008-2010 Sequoia..
The Camry Hybrid is not included in the recall.
Toyota owners with questions should call Toyota's customer service line at 800-331-4331. To top of page
01-21-10, 04:05 PM
#70
Lexus Fanatic
01-21-10, 08:09 PM
#71
Lexus Fanatic
Do you know WHY I never had an oil sludge problem?
Curious?
Want to know why?
It is b/c I CHANGE THE OIL as recommended. Before I changed my own oil, I got it done.
Amazingly, I didn't have sludge problems in the ES or RX. Amazing isn't it.
Toyota was very very very nice to make whatever reperations for this "sludge" problem when it was obvious PEOPLE WERE NOT CHANGING THEIR OIL.
Curious?
Want to know why?
It is b/c I CHANGE THE OIL as recommended. Before I changed my own oil, I got it done.
Amazingly, I didn't have sludge problems in the ES or RX. Amazing isn't it.
Toyota was very very very nice to make whatever reperations for this "sludge" problem when it was obvious PEOPLE WERE NOT CHANGING THEIR OIL.
I've said this, over and over again, here on CAR CHAT....no matter what you drive, change your oil and filter at reasonable intervals (3000-5000 miles) and you will minimize your chances of oil-related problems.
Here's your proof.
01-22-10, 08:33 AM
#73
Lexus Fanatic
The usual way is notification with form-letters or E-Mail to the registered owners. I don't see why this time would be any different.
Last edited by mmarshall; 01-22-10 at 08:40 AM.
01-22-10, 08:38 AM
#74
Lexus Fanatic
example: seat belts saves lives, which i'm sure you will agree. but there are people out there who refuse to wear seat belts. that is their choice, that is their decision. they live with the consequences of their choice. they get into a serious car accident, they die. end of story. but ultimately it is their choice.
No. With seat belts, legally, they DON'T have a choice. Most states (and the Federal Government, for Government-owned vehicles) have a mandatory seat belt-use law. Mandatory does NOT mean optional. If drivers DON'T wear seat belts, they risk fines, license suspensions, or other disciplinary xctions.
01-22-10, 09:00 AM
#75
Lexus Test Driver
This new recall will not look good for Toyota. Between the floor mats, the electronic brake safety override and the mechanically stuck gas pedal. Toyota is admitting there is something else going on here beside the floor mat issue. At least Toyota is doing the right thing in all these recalls, most car companies would have done so without a fight.